Does Richard Branson understand F1?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Is it called a Virgin because it hasn't seen a wind tunnel?

Nick Wirth's CDF-only concept is daring, to say the least. It may have worked for sportscars, but these are formula cars.

Even the much maligned Dallara, as used by the IRL, undergoes some windtunnel testing.

[old man]

If Manor are cutting out the peripheral stuff like a mega motorhomes and lots of gloss on everything then fine, I have never fully understood where $200 - 400 million went anyway but the reliance on CFD is dodgy IMO and when one looks at the gain Brawn had with the diffuser I can't help thinking Manor may have a shock coming. The grid is essentially covered by just one second so minor differences in the car make major differences on the grid. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens.

[Spudy]

Originally Posted by jab

I recall plenty of sneers towards Red Bull when they first arrived for their "different" way of going about things, and a lot of people didn't think they were committed. They finished 2nd in the championship last year. Virgin are a step beyond that as they are a company which largely thrives off PR. Take a look at the team's new website - it's slick, refined and original. I have a feeling Virgin will trump Red Bull in the PR stakes next year. As for the important stuff, the on track action, they may have to wait a few years yet, but in Manor they have a team that has plenty of experience in the junior formulae and they know how to win. For me, they have the most potential out of all the new teams

I agree totally. I think Virgin is an exciting new prospect for F1. They look like they want to shake it up a bit for the fans. They have two very good drivers and I hear they have already approached a GP2 team to work with in terms of bringing through new talent which I think is a smart move. Plus I like the idea that they are trying to use CFD to design the car in full, it really could be a genious move. A couple of people have said the cars looks great so maybe they have stumbled across a good solid design for their first car. John Booth is a great racing guy as well, he concentrates on racing. Virgin will do a great job of the marketing. I have heard virgin will handle all marketing, pr and media so the Manor and Wirth sides can just concentrate on the cars and going racing. Sounds like a smart idea to me.

[Belatti]

the BIG question is...










DOES BERNIE UNDERSTANDS F1???

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by kartracer41

Like what others have said though, that "agreement" could be thrown out in five minutes time.

There are too many teams that want that agreement to have it thrown out. So I don't understand how it could ever be thrown out "in five minutes time". Unless of course F1 wants to commit financial suicide again, and then maybe Mercedes will leave F1 too. Is this what we want?

Why do teams want to spend $400 million, when they can have the same thing for $40 million!?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

People agree with anything when they want to get rid of something annoying and then...

But they weren't banking on the majority of the teams being of the independent variety then were they.

Mercedes and Ferrari (For it is only they that would wish to spend, spend, spend. And I have my doubts about Mercedes on that one) don't really have much of a say in anything these days.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Belatti

the BIG question is...










DOES BERNIE UNDERSTANDS F1???

Only too well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

This is quite an interesting article from the beeb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8414903.stm

[Juarez Jed]

By not competing with the chequebook but with the ingenuity of Nick Wirth surely you are gambling on either a stellar year with some radical technical advantage (unlikely) or a struggling year at the rear of the grid(more likely). Even with no knowledge of F1 Branson would have read up on the disappointment that was Simtek ?
I have no problem supporting them as an F1 minnow and underdog but if Branson is going to have a "we're so smart" attitude and expect to win everything on a tight budget then he will have to cop the criticism on the chin if they fail.
That BBC article sounds like they have a more realistic approach than the first press releases indicated. They should do alright if and when the other teams have to reduce their spending to similar levels.

[Fox89]

They should do alright if and when the other teams have to reduce their spending to similar levels.

Well, that'll depend on how regulations change as well. Once you get behind in development you're doomed to be playing catch up for a long long time. Virgin may well need the big boys to come down to their spending level and then hope for another major regulations change to level the playing field again.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

I have no problem supporting them as an F1 minnow and underdog but if Branson is going to have a "we're so smart" attitude and expect to win everything on a tight budget then he will have to cop the criticism on the chin if they fail.

I don't see anywhere in the BBC article where Branson intimates a "we're so smart" attitude. Infact he comes across as a realist.

"Branson is realistic about which end of the grid his Virgin logo is likely to line-up in 2010.
'We're not expecting the same good fortune,' he said. 'The team is at a major disadvantage as the other teams can spend £400m if they want to but it's such a waste of money to spend that on two cars.' "

[Juarez Jed]

[QUOTE=bjohnsonsmith;2601089]I don't see anywhere in the BBC article where Branson intimates a "we're so smart" attitude. Infact he comes across as a realist.

No the BBC article seems quite good, it was some of the earlier posts that suggested Branson was a trifle overoptimistic.
I think it's quite brilliant to get other companies to fund your F1 project by the way. He is certainly an expert on getting maximum bang for his buck.
I'm a tad worried about this Russian supercar company thats part financier however. Reminds me of the Monteverdi Onyx fiasco. (And I know they weren't Russian..but they were a supercar company IIRC).
Why would you think there's money to be made from a Russian supercar ? No one outside of Russia would buy one because they'd be scared of the Lada jokes and Russians want Bugattis and Ferraris the same as everyone else !

[bjohnsonsmith]

[QUOTE=Juarez Jed;2601102]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't see anywhere in the BBC article where Branson intimates a "we're so smart" attitude. Infact he comes across as a realist.

No the BBC article seems quite good, it was some of the earlier posts that suggested Branson was a trifle overoptimistic.

That's fairenough. Branson's never struck me as someone who rushes into things, except maybe his early trans-atalntic balloon attempts and obviously with Brawn F1 he got himself right in the deep end with an 'unknown' package. Makes you wonder how much influence Ross Brawn had in getting Branson to come up with the money.

Any way it looks like he's got the bug but is being optimistic yet cautious, which seems a sensible approach.

[csirl]

Is it called a Virgin because it hasn't seen a wind tunnel?

Nick Wirth's CDF-only concept is daring, to say the least. It may have worked for sportscars, but these are formula cars.

Manor speak: "We are using cutting edge CDF to design the car".

Translation: "We cant even afford to rent a wind tunnel for a couple of days, so we are forced to do without and more than likely will be off the pace at the back of the grid ala Forte Corse".

Manor speak. "Manor/Virgin has loads of expertise in F1".

Translation. "Manor is a F3 team that is totally out of its depth in F1. Its main expertise is that some of its people used to work for a failed garagiste team called Simtek in the early 1990s".

[Félix]

Look at who Acura/Wirth raced against in sportscars. Their updated aero on a sucky French customer chassis never saw a wind tunnel but gave Audi and Porsche, two cars developed in the Fondmetal tunnel with much more substantial resources, a run for their money. Of course, the revolutionary Wirth chassis for last year's Acura big prototype was kinda less successful...

At least,they are very advanced in the virtual reality department and their simulator could very accurately prepare David Brabham before they raced at tracks they had never seen, seemingly being spot-on on the car setup and on modifications. A Lola customer even came in to test drive his new car before the real car was built. I know most F1 teams can say as much, but I'd think they're technically more advanced than a few midfield teams (and certainly better than the new entrants)...

[Mak]

Originally Posted by csirl

Manor speak: "We are using cutting edge CDF to design the car".

Translation: "We cant even afford to rent a wind tunnel for a couple of days, so we are forced to do without and more than likely will be off the pace at the back of the grid ala Forte Corse".

Manor speak. "Manor/Virgin has loads of expertise in F1".

Translation. "Manor is a F3 team that is totally out of its depth in F1. Its main expertise is that some of its people used to work for a failed garagiste team called Simtek in the early 1990s".

I believe none of the F3 team are involved in this project (even different premises).The withdrawal from ES F3 is for them to concentrate on the new GP3

Just like to add that most people coming back into lower formula from F1 are also normally out of there depth, so it works both ways and does not say anything about each's talent, just different skills needed.
series.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

But they weren't banking on the majority of the teams being of the independent variety then were they.

Mercedes and Ferrari (For it is only they that would wish to spend, spend, spend. And I have my doubts about Mercedes on that one) don't really have much of a say in anything these days.

Ball locks that's what it is, but again you have "but" and again you will say that, because you think you know so well what you think you know.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

because you think you know so well what you think you know.

Well, if I think I know what I think I think I know, then I think I know what I think I know.

"Sustainability" is the keyword at the FIA these days, and hopefully the same mistakes won't be allowed to happen again.

In the meantime, Ferrari and some others will continue to trim down their staff and resources as others have already done. That's not fantasy. That's a fact.

Does Richard Branson understand F1? I think that he does now that it's finally beginning to make sense. Maybe it will make more sense to him than others.

[Graz]

I can't entirely agree Marbot. Branson was miserly when it came to Brawn and he thinks that his input had something to do with their success when in fact the car had millions pumped into it was bloody quick before Branson took his photo opportunity.

It's all very well working off the low budget now but the fact is, the other teams are going to spend significantly more for at least the next 2 or 3 seasons while the Virgin tools around in an under designed, under developed and under financed car. I'd say Branson's view of 'this F1 lark is easy' will change then and he won't want to see the Virgin brand shown as tail enders. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he pulls out in a year or two.

In any case, as and when the economy turns around (which it will such that it's better than it is now), F1 is fickle so a rule for savings made now for 2 or 3 years away is meaningless. This is F1 - there's simply no guarantee it will happen. True, there will be some scaling back but at the end of the day, it's all about winning.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Graz

Branson was miserly when it came to Brawn and he thinks that his input had something to do with their success when in fact the car had millions pumped into it was bloody quick before Branson took his photo opportunity.

Branson put 2.4 mil into it and got an estimated return of 61 mil. Miserly or Masterly? I would think that even he knows that 2.4 mil doesn't even buy you an engine supply.

Originally Posted by Graz

It's all very well working off the low budget now but the fact is, the other teams are going to spend significantly more for at least the next 2 or 3 seasons while the Virgin tools around in an under designed, under developed and under financed car.

I wonder how many other teams are going to be spending "significantly more" next season? Even Mercedes are working to a much smaller budget.

Originally Posted by Graz

I'd say Branson's view of 'this F1 lark is easy' will change then and he won't want to see the Virgin brand shown as tail enders. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he pulls out in a year or two.

From the articles that I've read I don't get the feeling that Branson thinks that F1 is "easy" at all. He seems to think that things will take time, as indeed they will.

Originally Posted by Graz

In any case, as and when the economy turns around (which it will such that it's better than it is now), F1 is fickle so a rule for savings made now for 2 or 3 years away is meaningless. This is F1 - there's simply no guarantee it will happen. True, there will be some scaling back but at the end of the day, it's all about winning.

The resource restriction agreement is all part and parcel of the Concorde agreement now and therefore very few really know the full details of it. Suffice to say that Ferrari, Mercedes etc aren't wasting any time in getting on with the job. Indeed, you could say that Mercedes have already done it!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Belatti

the BIG question is...

DOES BERNIE UNDERSTANDS F1???

Clearly.

[Tim the Grey]

Reading some comments in reported interviews, and in here, I'd say Ricky B understnad F1 all too well, and is happily using it to big up HIS brand!

After all, the mileage he got, from a claimed £2.5mill sponsorship deal has been enormous. Probably PAID for this year's Manor budget, in advertising he just could not buy. On the BBC, for instance...

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Branson put 2.4 mil into it and got an estimated return of 61 mil. Miserly or Masterly? I would think that even he knows that 2.4 mil doesn't even buy you an engine supply.



I wonder how many other teams are going to be spending "significantly more" next season? Even Mercedes are working to a much smaller budget.



From the articles that I've read I don't get the feeling that Branson thinks that F1 is "easy" at all. He seems to think that things will take time, as indeed they will.



The resource restriction agreement is all part and parcel of the Concorde agreement now and therefore very few really know the full details of it. Suffice to say that Ferrari, Mercedes etc aren't wasting any time in getting on with the job. Indeed, you could say that Mercedes have already done it!

Let's see some seasons end shall we?

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

...
Ironically it was recorded at .......Manor Studios...

Amazing piece of info!

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Graz

Let's see some seasons end shall we?

...or even COME seasons end...