Lance Stroll to Williams F1?

[Ospi]

That's all great but it's based on racing from a decade ago, before severe injury and a loss of function in an arm and hand.

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[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Ospi

That's all great but it's based on racing from a decade ago, before severe injury and a loss of function in an arm and hand.

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Exactly. How many laps of this particular circle are we going to do?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Greem

So anyway, about Stroll...

...repeat to fade...

[Sodemo]

I watched the Williams film the other night. It was far better than I thought. Very similar in terms of structure to the Senna film, using footage from the era as well as some stylishly aged re-enactments. I never knew that Frank’s crash was as a cause of reckless driving down a French road. I had assumed he was the victim of circumstance. The film was quite unflinching, it doesn’t always paint the team and Frank in a positive light.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I watched the Williams film the other night. It was far better than I thought. Very similar in terms of structure to the Senna film, using footage from the era as well as some stylishly aged re-enactments. I never knew that Frank’s crash was as a cause of reckless driving down a French road. I had assumed he was the victim of circumstance. The film was quite unflinching, it doesn’t always paint the team and Frank in a positive light.

Even today the race down the mountain each evening can be very “exciting”.

[S griffin]

He admitted it was his own fault, he went too fast and paid the price

[djinvicta]

At least he admits it, but bloody hell, he has paid for it..

[peebee2]

Lance Stroll: “I got no guidance from Felipe Massa in 2017 F1 season.”

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...ver-from-massa

Hmmm..

[S griffin]

Hard to know whether that's true or not, maybe he feels there wasn't enougnh

[wnut]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Lance Stroll: “I got no guidance from Felipe Massa in 2017 F1 season.”

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...ver-from-massa

Hmmm..

Paddy Lowe would seem to disagree with the jumped up brat.

https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/...46/story.shtml

Massa scored 43 points for the team and was in contention to win the Azerbaijan Grand Prix before he suffered a suspension problem.


Lowe said Massa was consistent throughout the year, which in turn meant rookie team-mate Lance Stroll always had strong benchmark to judge his performance.
"He was a great reference for it [performance of the car]," Lowe told Autosport. "You always need a good reference somewhere in the garage.
"Sometimes you don't always find it on one side, you look for it on one or the other with two drivers.
"But Felipe has provided that reference at every race actually and that's been really valuable.
"There haven't been days where he's been lost, and not been able to give a reference for Lance and I think that's also quite remarkable."

[Paddy Lowe - Autosport]

Wonder how many days Lance was lost, most according to their qualifying comparison. Good Luck in 2018.

[Akrapovic]

Nothing Lowe said there disputes the claim of lack of guidance. All it says is Massa was consistent, provided benchmarks and data. There's nothing there to say Lowe disagrees with that in article. Massa scored 43 points. All well and good. Stroll scored 40. So points aren't really showing Massa in a wonderful light, so I don't know why Massas points are raised as a highlight.

Again, not saying Stroll is great and a future champion, but some of the claims against him are absolutely unfair. The Lowe article in no way disputes Strolls claim.

Also, Strolls claim does not read like an attack on Massa beyond the sensationalist headline. It reads like a Q&A sessions

Q: Was Massa your mentor
A: No, Massa was busy getting on with his job.

Reads a little differently when you think about the context, doesn't it? Odd situation we're in when we can't even discuss the worlds most generic driver (or second most generic, behind Paul 'charisma' di Resta) without resorting to silliness.

[bella]

wnut, i agree with akrapovic, i think you’re wrong.

lance is talking about a mentor and guidance, and your quote is talking about a providing a reference and a data point. very different things.

i respect the kid for saying it as it is, even if his manner is a little off sometimes. massa fans think of him as being some sort of father figure and that, whereas that obviously wasn’t in his remit.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

wnut, i agree with akrapovic, i think you’re wrong.

lance is talking about a mentor and guidance, and your quote is talking about a providing a reference and a data point. very different things.

i respect the kid for saying it as it is, even if his manner is a little off sometimes. massa fans think of him as being some sort of father figure and that, whereas that obviously wasn’t in his remit.

I was not expecting Massa to teach Stroll how to use a knife and fork.

It does however appear that Massa was providing the setup references for the cars during the GP weekends, and Lowe confirmed that Massa was providing the benchmarks - guidance.

In 2018 we will see what Williams looks like with "team leader" Stroll's input. I don't have high expectations, Stroll aint Max V that's for sure.

[Mekola]

The Canadian Nelsinho showed good form last year, very similar to what was expected for Nelsinho himself in 2008 (bar the Crashgate of course).

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

I was not expecting Massa to teach Stroll how to use a knife and fork.

perhaps not you, but his fans seem to have him up on a pedestal as some kind of messiah who takes teammates under his wing and teaches them how to be a good driver. like they had to do with him. i feel like lance’s comment is an answer to that.

benchmarks - so basically they used massa’s data. like you’d expect in any team where there isn’t peak schumacher levels of secret squirrel competitiveness...?

[Mekola]

Then they could have a point having Kubica in the team.
He could give the data despite not being in his best form.
Not a surprise to see him in FP1 to collect the data as Massa did before.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by wnut

I was not expecting Massa to teach Stroll how to use a knife and fork.

It does however appear that Massa was providing the setup references for the cars during the GP weekends, and Lowe confirmed that Massa was providing the benchmarks - guidance.

Which isn't the same as personally showing someone, what this means or how he should take a corner, that is guidance, using Massa's data is not guidance. It's like someone starting a new job and only being given a fact sheet by their boss about how to carry out their role, that isn't guidance either.

I don't like Stroll but it does appear that some people seem to want to stick the boot in at any given opportunity.

[Moneyseeker]

If Stroll sat alongside Massa in team de-briefs after every session and race and didn't get any 'guidance' from him, then he should have! I don't want to rain on his parade, but often the 2nd year in F1 for a driver is harder than the first...!

[Akrapovic]

Setting a benchmark purely through doing your own job is not guidance, or training. It's an absolutely horrendous way to train someone. I work for a training company and we don't just say "watch this, copy it". We'd have a terrible track record if we did that, and candidates would leave the course with more questions than they entered, and sometimes even with less knowledge. So lets drop this idea that Massa simply turning up to work is somehow guidance.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Setting a benchmark purely through doing your own job is not guidance, or training. It's an absolutely horrendous way to train someone. I work for a training company and we don't just say "watch this, copy it". We'd have a terrible track record if we did that, and candidates would leave the course with more questions than they entered, and sometimes even with less knowledge. So lets drop this idea that Massa simply turning up to work is somehow guidance.

Agreed. but this is an ultra competitive environment where the first measure of your performance is directly measured against one other person. And by guidance, it depends on how that is defined, it doesn't need to mean Massa coming up to Stroll and saying, 'try this line through Copse'. but if Massa suggested a change on his car that worked and the team put it on Strolls car, then by default, Stroll has benefited from Massa's 'guidance' or experience, call it what you will.

I find it hard to believe that Stroll learnt nothing from driving alongside Massa for a year.

[S griffin]

I think there would have been areas where he couldn’t have not learned from Massa, especially in debriefs. Learning from someone better often makes you better

[Akrapovic]

Saying that Massa driving, which by default gives the team data which can be used for Stroll is really clutching at straws. That is not guidance - that's just a byproduct of Massa doing his job.

However we need to be very careful to look at exactly what Stroll said.

"I don't think I had any guidance from him last year, whatsoever," Stroll told Autosport.

"He was a team-mate like any other.

"He was busy trying to drive as fast as he could, and I was trying to drive as fast as I could. That was it. There was nothing more to it than that.

"I don't know why people seem to think there was a coach or a mentor thing going on.

"There wasn't; it was just him doing his job and me doing mine, and whoever did it better finished ahead.

"Whether my team-mate is someone with 15 years' experience or someone of one year's experience, my approach doesn't change."

At no point did Stroll say he learnt nothing alongside Massa. He said he was not given guidance, which is clearly an answer to the question "Did you get any guidance?"

We need to be very clear on what Stroll said, what context it in and what the definition of guidance is. Because I really don't see a problem with the comments. He'll have learnt from Massa, but everyone learns from any team mate. But Massa was not the mentor he has been made out to be.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

But Massa was not the mentor he has been made out to be.

i think massa really showed his backside by tweeting something along the lines of "no comment" about it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

i think massa really showed his backside by tweeting something along the lines of "no comment" about it.

Why would Massa bother to get involved?

The next question would be, was it because the mentoring wasn't available, or somebody was arrogant and knew everything anyway?

2018 will be an interesting test for Stroll, we will see what his results without Massa look like.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

Why would Massa bother to get involved?

So I had to see exactly what Massa said. Here is the tweet in question...

https://twitter.com/MassaFelipe19/st...93717027790849

So, I agree about why even get involved? But Massa's version of not getting involved was to get involved by actively saying "no comment" and then leaving it up to his followers to determine what "no comment" means "as a comment".

I generally took it as... "I don't agree, but I am not going to go into details"

So while looking at the tweet... I got a real kick out of one of the responses which was a GIF that I take as commenting upon Stroll as both having been born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but maybe also his inability to find his own way. I really don't really have an issue with Stroll in general, but I just found it too funny to not share...





Richard