Peugeot 908 discussion

[gwyllion]

@Articus: I was referring to road cars. The article deals with road cars but nowhere takes the additional weight of hybrid system into account. I think that that is wrong. Of course a magical system that weighs nothing and takes no space, will always improve efficiency.

I know that the R18 is light enough to fit a hybrid system and still easily meet the minimum weight. However, in LMP1 diesel powered cars already get a smaller fuel tank than petrol powered cars, so the superior fuel consumption is sort of compensated.

In 2014 the minimum weight might be reduced from 900 to 775 kg. Under those rules, the weight of the hybrid system, especially in combination with a diesel engine, could become an important factor.

[Articus]

I think some of the Petrol teams where given the opportunity to run 890kg rather than 900kg as part of the performance balancing last year. Will that carry over to this year?

[JAG]

Olivier Quesnel as re-elected Peugeot SPort boss in early January, the company doesn't just compete at Le Mans, they have multiple programs from S2000's in the IRC/WRC to single make series, and a history over the past three decades of competing at world championship level in sportscars, rallying and F1. PSA partners Citroen have such a significant WRC budget and, like Peugeot, in-house facilities, Ford have been little more than bit part players, it's why VAG are entering the Polo WRC with a budget reported to be around 80m Euros.

PSA is Europes second largest car company behind VAG, their financial situation has been well known for months, the fourth quarter drop after the Euro crises meant they went from an expected profit to just about breaking even after the job cuts. The group is also overly reliant on small car sales in Europe, it's why they are switching production and focus to places like Brazil and China, and introducing a new model line-up.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think some of the Petrol teams where given the opportunity to run 890kg rather than 900kg as part of the performance balancing last year. Will that carry over to this year?

with no more grand-fathered cars for sure there won't be any other car that will run 915kg

[JAG]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

@Articus: I was referring to road cars. The article deals with road cars but nowhere takes the additional weight of hybrid system into account. I think that that is wrong. Of course a magical system that weighs nothing and takes no space, will always improve efficiency.

I know that the R18 is light enough to fit a hybrid system and still easily meet the minimum weight. However, in LMP1 diesel powered cars already get a smaller fuel tank than petrol powered cars, so the superior fuel consumption is sort of compensated.

In 2014 the minimum weight might be reduced from 900 to 775 kg. Under those rules, the weight of the hybrid system, especially in combination with a diesel engine, could become an important factor.

There was an Audi interview in Racecar Engineering (I think?), they were talking about Ultra and weight reduction, with a significantly lighter minimum weight components such as the suspension and brakes can be lightened, energy recovery systems can reduce the need for cooling features, and you can even develop all-in-one brake/KERS type sytems.

It's not just a case of using a current LMP and removing ballast, or bolting on extra hybrid componenets.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

PSA is Europes second largest car company behind VAG, their financial situation has been well known for months, the fourth quarter drop after the Euro crises meant they went from an expected profit to just about breaking even after the job cuts. The group is also overly reliant on small car sales in Europe, it's why they are switching production and focus to places like Brazil and China, and introducing a new model line-up.

Their statements about just about breaking even were in October. As of November they were talking about losses.

PSA's European deliveries dropped 8.2 percent in January-November despite a series of model launches, outpacing the overall market's 1.4 percent decline and trimming the group's market share by almost a percentage point.

Chief Executive Philippe Varin warned last month that the core automotive division would likely post a loss for 2011, compared with an initial profit target of more than 621 million euros ($811 million) announced in February 2011.

In October, Varin had said the division would come "close to break even", unveiling plans to generate 800 million euros in savings this year by cutting 6,000 European jobs.


Peugeot shares fell 1.6 percent to close at 12.97 euros, extending the stock's 12-month decline to 57 percent -- the biggest decliner on the 15-member STOXX Europe 600 autos & parts index.

Chatillon's most recent role as financial controller could equip him well to deliver the promised savings as CFO, amid deteriorating European demand and pricing.

"Given what's happening in 2012, you need someone who knows where cuts can be made," Societe Generale's Reitman said. "With no guarantees of relief on the revenue side, the focus of the performance plan moves to costs."

Interesting, there are talks again about discussions with FIAT/Chrysler for mergers...

[gwyllion]

According to http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...-le-30-janvier the invitation of the presentation of 30 January says "The HYbrid4 technology and the 2012 Peugeot Sport program".

They still believe that Peugeot will run 3 cars with the following drivers: Stéphane Sarrazin, Franck Montagny, Sébastien Bourdais, Anthony Davidson, Simon Pagenaud, Marc Gené, Jean-Karl Vernay and Lucas di Grassi.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...-le-30-janvier the invitation of the presentation of 30 January says "The HYbrid4 technology and the 2012 Peugeot Sport program".

They still believe that Peugeot will run 3 cars with the following drivers: Stéphane Sarrazin, Franck Montagny, Sébastien Bourdais, Anthony Davidson, Simon Pagenaud, Marc Gené, Jean-Karl Vernay and Lucas di Grassi.

Which leaves one seat empty out of 9, the list mentions 8 drivers.

[gwyllion]

The name Bertrand Baguette is mentioned a lot. Of course that assumes 3 instead of 2 cars.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...-le-30-janvier the invitation of the presentation of 30 January says "The HYbrid4 technology and the 2012 Peugeot Sport program".

They still believe that Peugeot will run 3 cars with the following drivers: Stéphane Sarrazin, Franck Montagny, Sébastien Bourdais, Anthony Davidson, Simon Pagenaud, Marc Gené, Jean-Karl Vernay and Lucas di Grassi.

That's good news, hopefully this was all just smoke & mirrors

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

According to http://www.autohebdo.fr/endurance/le...-le-30-janvier the invitation of the presentation of 30 January says "The HYbrid4 technology and the 2012 Peugeot Sport program".

They still believe that Peugeot will run 3 cars with the following drivers: Stéphane Sarrazin, Franck Montagny, Sébastien Bourdais, Anthony Davidson, Simon Pagenaud, Marc Gené, Jean-Karl Vernay and Lucas di Grassi.

Autohebdo only mentions 2 cars with their line ups (plus a couple of ´parttime´ drivers) for the WEC, no number of cars for Le Mans is quoted.

[Acid09]

Well two cars for the WEC is expected, I don't think there ever was a plan to run three.

[Acid09]

MulsannesCorner Twitter:

Peugeot decision to be made @ end of Jan (normal course of action). Those close to prgram think decis. will be made to run thru end 2013.

That sounds much better, let's hope that the company recovers so they´ll continue in 2014. In the very least this will bridge the gap until Porsche comes in which is excellent news for the WEC

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Acid09

MulsannesCorner Twitter:

Peugeot decision to be made @ end of Jan (normal course of action). Those close to prgram think decis. will be made to run thru end 2013.

That sounds much better, let's hope that the company recovers so they´ll continue in 2014. In the very least this will bridge the gap until Porsche comes in which is excellent news for the WEC

Yep, saw Mike's tweet earlier. Let's wait until the end of January before popping the champagne corks, but yes, encouraging noises coming out of Peugeot, it seems.

[ronnie peterson]

Autohebdo reports that Sebastien Bourdais will be partnering up with Katherine Legge to form Dragon Racing line-up.

http://www.autohebdo.fr/usa/indycar/...medium=twitter

[Acid09]

So that means he won't be one of the WEC drivers then? I'm not in the know about the Indy schedule & conflicts...

[ronnie peterson]

I believe Sonoma and Fontana clashes with WEC dates.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by ronnie peterson

Autohebdo reports that Sebastien Bourdais will be partnering up with Katherine Legge to form Dragon Racing line-up.

It seems official: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96983

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by ronnie peterson

I believe Sonoma and Fontana clashes with WEC dates.

Correct, Sears Point <-> Silverstone and Fontana <-> Interlagos.
Also LM Test day clashes with Detroit GP but that won´t affect Bourdais.

[Tom908V12]

No WEC for Bourdais then
I am more and more afraid it could be no full WEC for Peugeot neither

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

No WEC for Bourdais then
I am more and more afraid it could be no full WEC for Peugeot neither

I don' think so, they won't give Audi the championship just like that.

There are a few events they will absolutely do: Sebring & Spa as preparation for Le Mans, China & Brazil because they´re tremendously important markets for Peugeot..

So in the end they could only skip 1-2 events if anything and that's not really worth it to give up a world championship for. World Endurance Champions does have a marketing ring you can work with, a lot more than Intercontinental Le Mans Cup winners..

The Bourdais thing is no big worry, Peugeot has more able drivers than seats in the WEC anyways.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The Bourdais thing is no big worry, Peugeot has more able drivers than seats in the WEC anyways.

Mmmm, please list them. Bourdais and Pagenaud are doing Indycar. Lamy, Minnasian and Wurz are gone and Gene might be as well. That only leaves Davidson, Sarrazin and Montagny.

So either Gene is staying or they need to put a rookie in the car.

[Acid09]

Vernay or di Grassi should do the job fine, if they´re good enough for Le Mans they´re good enough for the WEC.

I just don't see the big loss with Bourdais to be honest, maybe it's because I'm still not over his ****ty performance at Le Mans...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Vernay or di Grassi should do the job fine, if they´re good enough for Le Mans they´re good enough for the WEC.

I just don't see the big loss with Bourdais to be honest, maybe it's because I'm still not over his ****ty performance at Le Mans...

Bourdais performed brilliantly compared to Lamy. If you consider how close the race ended up, those 3 stints on Saturday evening may have lost them the race. But so many more factors could have swung it one way or the other. Pitstop time difference over 24h between the leading two cars was 22 seconds in favour of Audi after over 30 pitstops for each team.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Bourdais performed brilliantly compared to Lamy. If you consider how close the race ended up, those 3 stints on Saturday evening may have lost them the race.

Lamy was horrible, Bourdais was bad, and Paganaud was superman in that car!
But yes Lamy was the worst, and probably lost them the race, but Bourdais didnt make it better.