Toyota - Serious About Winning ?

[darcym]

While typing out a reply to my own Williams/Jordan thread, the thought of sponsorship made me think of the article on autosport with regard to a tyre switch.

I don't know how much truth was in the article but lets assume it is true.

It was talking about teams swapping from Michellin to BridgeStone.

there was an interesting comment from Mike Gasgoine saying "Michellin are clearly the tyre to be on" then the story continued saying he may be overrules because toyota are trying to do a deal with bridgestone to supply all new toyotas with bridgestone tyres.

Now I understand the importance of maintaining the corperate stratergy, but what good is that stratergy if it is at the detriment of the racing team.

Which looks better maintaining the partnership and being a poor performer on the track, or not having the road car partnership yet moving up / maybe winning the some races without the car partnership, but on michillin tyres.

If toyota are as serious as they suggest about winning, why would they risk all the good work and demands for results ?


debate......

[Kicking-back]

Toyota are serious about winning - history shows they'll spend whatever it takes.

As for the tyres - that's speculation.

I'm inclined to believe Mike will get what he believes is best for the car's speed.

Although - just because Michelin are quicker now doesn't mean they always will be.

[darcym]

your right it is just speculation, however as I said, lets assume its true.

debate......

[Kicking-back]

Well, it's not quite as simple as good tyres vs (poor tyres + corporate image)

The combined effort of Toyota + Ferrari + AN Other could mean Bridgestone have the best tyres in that situation...

[Menelaos]

Well, Michelin have not always been the best, and they won't forever be so. If Toyota goes to Bridgestone the Bridgestones will simply become better, even comparable to Michelin. If one more team switches, there will be a good balance. So, why not?

[chillibowl]

if this is true how soon would toyota be allowed to use bridgestone rubber in testing. would they have wait until the end of the season or would they be allowed to run a parallel programs during the remainder of the season?
my guess would be they would have to wait till next year and run an old chassis at silverstone/jerez/ricards to see if they made the right call, but even that wont tell you much. seems like a hard way to make a choice when you cant even compare.

[kdr]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Toyota are serious about winning - history shows they'll spend whatever it takes

or pack up and go home when they don't.

[BootsOntheSide]

Either that or force a rule change that benefits them, or simply cheat and hope nobody notices.

I thought Toyotas had been factory-shipped on Bridgestone tyres for a number of years already, without prejudicing their F1 racing supply?

[Skam85]

They hired Ralf so OF COURSE they are serious about winning....

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by darcym

...there was an interesting comment from Mike Gasgoine saying "Michellin are clearly the tyre to be on" then the story continued saying he may be overrules because toyota are trying to do a deal with bridgestone to supply all new toyotas with bridgestone tyres. ....

Its quite simple... imagine the leverage Toyota would generate with Bridgestone if all their new cars are sold with Bridgestone tyres as OE fitment.

Thats a couple of million cars a year x 5 tyres x $$$ = $$$ kazillions in income for Bridgestone

So this would likely Ferrari wouldnt be the only favoured puppy in the pound if the triple ovals decided to switch to Bridgestone...

[FPV GTHO]

Personally i think if both the road cars and race cars switched to bridgestones they'd both be compromised..but certainly for next year if they switch, the off season testing and having an extra top team would certainly get Bridgestone back to the competitive side of things.

[Gt_R]

I've said long ago that a Toyota move to BS would be too good for BS to turn down, and that due to the road-division benefits, BS would be crazy to treat them poorly in the racing side.

To Toyota, it would be a calculated move. To allow BS to fully provide for their tyre side for road division would have a financial benefit on both parties. BS had been, despite a imbalance of testing mileage and teams, managed to put together a tyre good enough for the past few seasons. The potential of BS to succeed is there, and having a team as big as Toyota would significantly boost the data and competitiveness.

Not to mention that on the same tyres, Toyota had to fight much more teams... by trying to developing for a better tyre from BS, there's a good chance Toyota could overtake those teams.

[richard_sykes]

The tyres on Toyotas road cars are the last of their worries


On topic, the reason many believe Brigestone to be failing this year is the lack of input.

Ferrari and Bridgestones deal was famous because it was exclusive, Ferrari told all to Bridgestone giving them all the infomation they could get other teams held back for fear of vital infomation being passed through tyre manufacture even with the private measures in place ( I would imagine they had something )

With the current regulations prehaps the loss from sharing this infomation is out weighted by a gain in better tyres.

I think every F1 team is serious about winning, even those black cars at the back, what the called again

[Dutton]

As I have said in other threads, I would love Toyota to move to Bridgestone as, to my mind, it opens up great potential. Have Toyota set-up a comparable set-up to Ferrari's, then work on the basis of complete free-flow of data between all three parties. On top of that co-ordinate their schedules and priorities, as far as it reasonably possible, so as to maximise Brdigestone's potential at producing a top-notch tyre.

It would require the full, uncompromised support and dedication by all parties for it to fully succeed IMHO. Therefore, Ferrari would have to accept not being the undisputed No.1 (personally, though, if Toyota were up for it, I think Ferrari would welcome the opportunity).

[Tf105]

i'm a bit confuse as to why toyota would switch to help the one team bridgestone when they have like 5 or so other teams on michelins that they are helping... i see toyota swithcing their tyres on the production car side of things totally seperate from f1... they have a joint venture with GM would u feel they'll have a joint venture with gm if they were in F1.. i doubt..it's two seperate worlds...

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Teams will seek out any advantage they can find, currently the Toyota isn't as fast as the other top Michelin teams on equal tyres, now if the Bridgestone happens to be a faster shoe then Toyota pull in some of the difference.

It's worked for Sauber and BAR going the other way, so it's not a totally impossible scenario.

[BootsOntheSide]

This season Bridgestone have only had roughly 1/5 of the testing of the Michelin teams. WIth Toyota switching across it would be much more even, and Bridgestone have proved in the past that they can make a better tyre under those circumstances. In any case under these circusmtances it is certain that on some days the Bridgestone would be superior next season, and on those days Toyota would be very well-placed.