McLaren AUTOSPORT BRDC Award 2011 - Page 2

EastonNeston · 6 Oct 2011, 17:31 (Ref:2966751)

Very pleasing to see that the British Tom Blomquist is included in the final 6.
Remember he was the youngest ever F Renault UK champion, is a race winner in German F3 (Equivalent to national class of British F3) and is still the youngest of the final six.

Also good to see two Fortec drivers involved, but there should have been a third. Josh Webster from BARC Renault, has dome more in only his second season in Cars than Zamporeli in his 3rd season.

cleanup · 6 Oct 2011, 18:29 (Ref:2966777)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

So the 6 have now been released.....

The big surprise is Emil Bernstorff.... dont you have to be English!

It has to be a straight fight between Scott and Alex.

Based on available funding during the year my vote would go to Scott. An amazing year by anyones standards.

I think if Alex didnt win this year we would still see him racing in F3 or GP3 next year but if Scott doesnt win then we might lose one of this countries best current prospects due to his lack of budget.

Agree on Scott but as previous debates have proven, its not the best driver that will win necessarily, its the best driver on one specific day so lets hope the best driver doesnt have a glitch on the day.

kipper · 6 Oct 2011, 18:33 (Ref:2966780)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Maybe a silly question but is Chris Middlehurst something to do with Andy?

His son, I believe.

With regards to the winner of the award; I'd be amazed if the winner was someone else other than Lynn, Rowland or Malvern. Personally, I hope that Malvern wins the award.

kipper · 6 Oct 2011, 18:37 (Ref:2966781)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

Also good to see two Fortec drivers involved, but there should have been a third. Josh Webster from BARC Renault, has dome more in only his second season in Cars than Zamporeli in his 3rd season.

Technically Zamperelli has completed four and a half seasons of racing, having raced in Ginetta Juniors for a season and a half.

EastonNeston · 7 Oct 2011, 15:13 (Ref:2967189)

I didn't realise he'd been around that long!

Makes the performance of Josh look even better, and indeed that of Tom B last year in winning Renault UK in his first full season.

boyndie · 8 Oct 2011, 16:47 (Ref:2967613)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

It has to be a straight fight between Scott and Alex.

That's what I thought but look at, RSF backed, Oliver Rowland's recent form. I would've 100% backed Malvern (as previously noted) but I didnt realise he was 22. Stats on Scott Malverns website are impressive but do the younger guys with aero experience stand a better chance of realising an F1 dream? I would now worry that Malvern may get bypassed because of age yet he clearly is a very talented driver.

Also can anyone confirm? Once the top six are selected do judges view them with a completely clean slate or is there any weighting based on their previous career performance?

Still backing Malvern though!

Flavio Galtieri · 9 Oct 2011, 10:56 (Ref:2968013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

That's what I thought but look at, RSF backed, Oliver Rowland's recent form. I would've 100% backed Malvern (as previously noted) but I didnt realise he was 22. Stats on Scott Malverns website are impressive but do the younger guys with aero experience stand a better chance of realising an F1 dream? I would now worry that Malvern may get bypassed because of age yet he clearly is a very talented driver.

Also can anyone confirm? Once the top six are selected do judges view them with a completely clean slate or is there any weighting based on their previous career performance?

Still backing Malvern though!

I don't know either.

I really hope, if they do take other things into consideration, then the work and sheer effort put into raising a budget should count for something.

It might be a pointer to the character of the driver, which can make a hell of a difference when things get tough.

andyjeffers · 9 Oct 2011, 19:20 (Ref:2968212)

Peter,

At the end of the day they wouldnt put Emil in the award if he had nothing to do with England, so here for a start you are wrong.
Formula Renault BARC is less than half the cost of Formula Renault UK this is why it is called a 'low cost Formula'

Formula Renault BARC is the hardest it has ever been and at the Front it is on a par with UK, and it is not seen as a club championship. If you knew that a front runner in BARC would be in the award i'm sure youd put your son in the championship, dont just be sour because your son isnt in the award, obviously they looked at your son and he didnt make the cut for a reason. End of, sorry to break the bad news.
Dino has shown his speed in everything he has done, Ginetta Junior champion, Formula Renault UK winter series, and a RSF drive. Why would they do this if he was a club driver? He has always struggled for budget like many do in this sport, and he doesnt have as much money as you obviously to do Renault UK, otherwise he would be on the grid as he has stated for many years he wants to do the championship. At the end of the last year he had a drive with MTECH for 2011 but a pull out of a sponsor didnt allow him to pursue this, so he had no option but to do BARC with next to no budget.
From what you said Peter you have disrespected all of the drivers in Formula Renault BARC and made yourself look a complete ****** on here.
Josh Webster and many others at the front of BARC have shown there speed in the UK car too, and its no doubt they would run at the front, so theres no need to say people are 'club' drivers, when your son is being beaten by first year drivers most weekends in Formula Renault UK.

Enough said, point proven.
Regards,
AJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Cammish

To be fair to Chris, I think Emil advised the world he was Danish in Formula Ford. And i am sure he was living in Portugal but might be wrong, admittedly living in Portugal doesnt make you less English.
Good Luck to all the guys, for Speed Go for Rowland, for chance to go all the way go for Lynn , for your heart go for Malvern and if your Swedish or Danish go for Tom or Emil.

If like me you support British Motorsport, then put your head in your hands and wonder why bother and judging by the current grids not many are, finally the UK FR grids are low, the cost to try to compete in the champiosnhip versus the cost in BARC are comparable why didnt Dino Zamperelli make the step? basically a club driver is now included in the final 6 what does that say , also its a precedent that will need to be accepted going forward.

Regards PC

EastonNeston · 9 Oct 2011, 20:11 (Ref:2968233)

Peter,

How is Tom Blomquist not British?, he was born here, lives here and his mother is English.

He has rightly been selected for the finals, due to his results this year. Remember he is still only 17, is a race winner in German F3 and the youngest ever F Renault UK champion, when he was 16.

Surely he is the sort of driver who would benefit from taking part in the finals and, if he performs well on the day, of actually winning the award.

Deemun · 10 Oct 2011, 06:23 (Ref:2968446)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

That's what I thought but look at, RSF backed, Oliver Rowland's recent form. I would've 100% backed Malvern (as previously noted) but I didnt realise he was 22. Stats on Scott Malverns website are impressive but do the younger guys with aero experience stand a better chance of realising an F1 dream? I would now worry that Malvern may get bypassed because of age yet he clearly is a very talented driver.

Also can anyone confirm? Once the top six are selected do judges view them with a completely clean slate or is there any weighting based on their previous career performance?

Still backing Malvern though!

Hi Boyndie,
You have raised some fair points.
Kevin Turner (an award judge) has stated on here before the drivers results during the preceding season is what gets them selected as a finalist in the first place, but for the duration of the competition the driver’s performance is what decides the eventual winner. One would hope, although I don’t know for sure, that relevant previous experience is taken into account.
With regards to Scott Malvern, yes he is 22, but he didn’t begin his circuit racing career until 2009 when he was 20. But look at his results. He has won almost half of the races that he has ever taken part in. I have no doubt a factor in his success is his maturity because he is so consistent, very level headed and makes so few mistakes.
It’s unfair to hold Scott’s circumstances against him. He wasn’t in a position to begin car racing at 16 so he did the next best thing studying Automotive engineering and working as a mechanic at Jamun Racing. His technical knowledge is superior to most of his peers and that is why Ford is currently using him as the development driver for their new ECOBOOST Formula Ford car which I see as a real feather in his cap.
He did a Q & A session at the Silverstone Racing Club yesterday (so did some of the Carlin F3 drivers) and came across as mature, highly intelligent and very articulate and also as a thoroughly pleasant and grounded young man.
Because of his circumstances and background Scott has had to work incredibly hard to get where he is and continues to do so. I wish all the finalists the best of luck but I would be happy beyond belief if Scott should come out on top, especially as it’s highly likely this is his last chance.

Redracer77 · 10 Oct 2011, 21:18 (Ref:2968900)

So voicing your opinion means "point proven" ?

Well your more a fool than your posting suggests

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyjeffers

Peter,

At the end of the day they wouldnt put Emil in the award if he had nothing to do with England, so here for a start you are wrong.
Formula Renault BARC is less than half the cost of Formula Renault UK this is why it is called a 'low cost Formula'

Formula Renault BARC is the hardest it has ever been and at the Front it is on a par with UK, and it is not seen as a club championship. If you knew that a front runner in BARC would be in the award i'm sure youd put your son in the championship, dont just be sour because your son isnt in the award, obviously they looked at your son and he didnt make the cut for a reason. End of, sorry to break the bad news.
Dino has shown his speed in everything he has done, Ginetta Junior champion, Formula Renault UK winter series, and a RSF drive. Why would they do this if he was a club driver? He has always struggled for budget like many do in this sport, and he doesnt have as much money as you obviously to do Renault UK, otherwise he would be on the grid as he has stated for many years he wants to do the championship. At the end of the last year he had a drive with MTECH for 2011 but a pull out of a sponsor didnt allow him to pursue this, so he had no option but to do BARC with next to no budget.
From what you said Peter you have disrespected all of the drivers in Formula Renault BARC and made yourself look a complete ****** on here.
Josh Webster and many others at the front of BARC have shown there speed in the UK car too, and its no doubt they would run at the front, so theres no need to say people are 'club' drivers, when your son is being beaten by first year drivers most weekends in Formula Renault UK.

Enough said, point proven.
Regards,
AJ

andyjeffers · 12 Oct 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2970117)

yep cheers

boyndie · 16 Oct 2011, 17:58 (Ref:2972018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Cammish

If like me you support British Motorsport, then put your head in your hands and wonder why bother and judging by the current grids not many are, finally the UK FR grids are low, the cost to try to compete in the champiosnhip versus the cost in BARC are comparable why didnt Dino Zamperelli make the step? basically a club driver is now included in the final 6 what does that say , also its a precedent that will need to be accepted going forward.

Peter, for what it's worth I agree. I watched BARC at silverstone today which, in single seater terms, looked comparable to a cadet kart race!!

Also saw BRDC finalist Zamparelli with his Italian flag coloured helmet. He wants to make his mind up!! He clearly classes himself as Italian. How an Italian BARC driver, or any BARC driver, got as far as the final 6 baffles me. Winning the championship is fair enough but what weight does the FR BARC championship carry? Come on, it's a support race for a support race!!

Furthermore Peter, you should show no regard to insulting posts. No need for comments like that.

blindfold · 16 Oct 2011, 19:44 (Ref:2972085)

So if your not 100% Anglo Saxon, then you shouldn't be allowed in?! You utter tit.

This is the modern world. And a very open and free country. Is it not allowed to be proud of your heritage now?!

kipper · 17 Oct 2011, 11:24 (Ref:2972584)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

Also saw BRDC finalist Zamparelli with his Italian flag coloured helmet. He wants to make his mind up!! He clearly classes himself as Italian. How an Italian BARC driver, or any BARC driver, got as far as the final 6 baffles me. Winning the championship is fair enough but what weight does the FR BARC championship carry? Come on, it's a support race for a support race!!

It is true that Zamparelli has Italian heritage; however, he is of British nationality and therefore is eligible for the award. The design of his crash helmet is somewhat irrelevant in this. Also, it is worth noting that former winners Dario Franchitti and Paul di Resta also display Italian flags on their crash helmets; whilst Ralph Firman Jnr's design includes a large shamrock due to his Irish ancestory.

I don't have any particular issue with drivers from Formula Renault BARC being nominated for the award. Whilst I accept that the series is not at the level of the main UK series, it does have a reasonable track record in providing a stepping stone for drivers of talent, but short on funds. Also, I would question as to whether the series is any different in terms of level to, say, Formula Palmer Audi.

Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, there are occasional nominees for the award from less 'mainstream' competitions. For example, these have included the aforementioned FPA, Clubmans, Caterhams and EuroBOSS.

boyndie · 17 Oct 2011, 18:19 (Ref:2972779)

[QUOTE=blindfold;2972085]So if your not 100% Anglo Saxon, then you shouldn't be allowed in?! You utter tit.
QUOTE]

lol

boyndie · 17 Oct 2011, 19:16 (Ref:2972817)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper

It is true that Zamparelli has Italian heritage; however, he is of British nationality and therefore is eligible for the award. The design of his crash helmet is somewhat irrelevant in this. Also, it is worth noting that former winners Dario Franchitti and Paul di Resta also display Italian flags on their crash helmets; whilst Ralph Firman Jnr's design includes a large shamrock due to his Irish ancestory.

I don't have any particular issue with drivers from Formula Renault BARC being nominated for the award. Whilst I accept that the series is not at the level of the main UK series, it does have a reasonable track record in providing a stepping stone for drivers of talent, but short on funds. Also, I would question as to whether the series is any different in terms of level to, say, Formula Palmer Audi.

Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, there are occasional nominees for the award from less 'mainstream' competitions. For example, these have included the aforementioned FPA, Clubmans, Caterhams and EuroBOSS.

Yep, ok Kipper fair enough.

The point I was trying to make in my "sensitive" post is based on the following;

My understanding of the BRDC autosport awards is to select and promote a british driver with the best chance of progression. The investment given, £100k and the publicity etc, is a "spring board" for this UK talent. British motorsport, as an industry, need to have at least one "button" or "hamilton" ambassador in place at all times to fuel UK motorsport. Future gate receipts depend on this being in place and this award is potentially the corner stone. By the way, hats off to BRDC / Autosport for putting money up when it should be the job of the government (but thats another debate....)

So, anyway, the BRDC view zamparelli as british (which he is?) and are prepared to invest £100k in him, yet he clearly regards himself as Italian otherwise he'd have a union jack on his head. Is he British and proud ? I know, Kipper, you feel helmet colours are irrelevant but I feel that displaying your choice of national identity on your helmet shows a passion.

Also re: BARC. I just wondered if there wasn't enough talent further up the ladder without BRDC/Autosport having to prematurely plunder the lower classes in order to fill the nominees list.

Anyway, will try to be less provocative next time...

Flavio Galtieri · 17 Oct 2011, 20:23 (Ref:2972876)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

So, anyway, the BRDC view zamparelli as british (which he is?) and are prepared to invest £100k in him, yet he clearly regards himself as Italian otherwise he'd have a union jack on his head. Is he British and proud ? I know, Kipper, you feel helmet colours are irrelevant but I feel that displaying your choice of national identity on your helmet shows a passion.:

I think you should lighten up.

All motorsport enthusiasts must have a little bit of Italian in them somewhere

Deemun · 17 Oct 2011, 20:51 (Ref:2972899)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

I think you should lighten up.

All motorsport enthusiasts must have a little bit of Italian in them somewhere

I believe Scott Malvern is of Italian descent all be it about 3 or 4 generations back and he does actually have a British Union Flag design on the top of his crash helmet and I noticed that he had the Union Flag against his name on his car at the Formula Ford Festival yesterday.

I hope no one starts objecting against him now!

Seriously though the rules of the competition this year state that the driver has to be either born in the UK or have a UK passport which I think is slightly different to previous years when both conditions had to be fulfilled.

I can't see that this is a problem. Even the highly exclusive BRDC have non UK Nationals among their membership. Many British racing series & teams couldn't survive without overseas drivers.

cleanup · 17 Oct 2011, 21:18 (Ref:2972919)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

That's what I thought but look at, RSF backed, Oliver Rowland's recent form. I would've 100% backed Malvern (as previously noted) but I didnt realise he was 22. Stats on Scott Malverns website are impressive but do the younger guys with aero experience stand a better chance of realising an F1 dream? I would now worry that Malvern may get bypassed because of age yet he clearly is a very talented driver.

Also can anyone confirm? Once the top six are selected do judges view them with a completely clean slate or is there any weighting based on their previous career performance?

Still backing Malvern though!

Boyndie, looks like you have stirred up a hornets nest on drivers and nationalities. All said and done, as long as they have a British passport and can represent this country and draw in the mighty British fan base, good for all of them I say. As to my opinion, Roland is probably our best prospect from the bunch long term, already proving to be better than Lynn in his first year, Scott probably deserves it the most irrespective of his age, not his fault he started late but is appropriate I think but all of that matters for nothing on the day, the guy that performs in the tests and that tick all the "boxes" whatever they may be, will win. For what its worth, pay no attention to the insult, your point on Dino is perhaps a bit harsh but reality is, he could never cut it at the sharp end but as I also read, there are often drivers in the annual selection that perhaps would not be the general public choice but what does that matter.

**bella** · 18 Oct 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2973234)

well put, cleanup. it's not constructive arguing over the semantics of nationality. nor is it constructive calling each other names, but i'd have thought since we're a forum of grownups old enough to use a computer we'd have got past that problem.

if you want to throw insults at each other, go and have a row in the paddock face to face.

EastonNeston · 18 Oct 2011, 14:30 (Ref:2973286)

If the purpose of the award is to assist the young driver with the best chance of getting to F1, surely drivers from BARC have an advantage over someone from F Ford, as they are used to driving with wings and slicks.

Also, I'd have thought that someone, aged 17, winning races in BARC in only their second season was more worthy of inclusion than an older driver in his 4th season of racing.

Deemun · 18 Oct 2011, 15:19 (Ref:2973305)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

If the purpose of the award is to assist the young driver with the best chance of getting to F1, surely drivers from BARC have an advantage over someone from F Ford, as they are used to driving with wings and slicks.

Also, I'd have thought that someone, aged 17, winning races in BARC in only their second season was more worthy of inclusion than an older driver in his 4th season of racing.

Quite frankly, and with respect, that is tosh. David Coulthard, Jenson Button, Ralph Firman, Anthony Davidson are four of the previous winners of the award who came through Formula Ford and went onto F1 careers.

FF has it's place. It teaches drivers mechanical grip. Perhaps that is why in treacherous conditions Button out performs Hamilton because he has more empatathy and feel for what is happening in the car. Hamilton is a great driver but even in karting he-by passed the classes where you have little grip or power going the cadet-yamaha-JICA-FA route; the last two in particular offer high levels of grip. Button on the other hand drove in Formula TKM, not much power or grip and began his car racing career in Formula Ford.

The age thing shouldn't be relevant either. What should be considered is when a driver began his career and how successful they have been since they began. Scott Malvern may be 22 but circumstances didn't allow him to begin racing until he was 20. He has won over 51% of the races he has competed in http://www.driverdb.com/drivers/scott-malvern/ and has 26 wins from 33 starts in 2011. That is impressive wherever you are racing.

You are clearly disappointed because a driver you feel should have been selected as a finalist i.e. Josh Webster, wasn't on this occasion. The judges will have deliberated over their decision at great length and I'm sure Josh's name was considered but they obviously felt he hadn't quite done enough. That's tough but they can only select six for the shoot out. Motor Racing is tough and full of disappointments. You have to be resilliant. If Josh has what it takes (& I personally would love to see him prove that he does) then he will re-group and return even more determined and with the age that he is he has plenty of time on his side.

But whining on his behalf is not doing him any favours. The drivers that have been selected are there on their own merit. Don't begrudge them their place. Good luck to Josh next year.

krt917 · 18 Oct 2011, 20:17 (Ref:2973493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyndie

Also can anyone confirm? Once the top six are selected do judges view them with a completely clean slate or is there any weighting based on their previous career performance?

Hi all,

I'll stay away from the more controversial elements of the thread as to get involved would be inappropriate at this stage! However, I can confirm that past performance and experience is taken into account, but obviously the biggest factor/criteria is how the drivers perform at the tests. It's as close to a level playing field as we can realistically get.

Best regards,
Kevin Turner

Deemun · 18 Oct 2011, 20:22 (Ref:2973497)

Hi all,

I'll stay away from the more controversial elements of the thread as to get involved would be inappropriate at this stage!

Very wise Kevin!

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