Strakka LMP1 discussion

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

2000mm according to Japanese Autosport

I think Oreca 05 is the only one in line with the new width. But don't quote me on that.

Thanks.

At the risk of drifting from the thread I think the SMP - BR Engineering LMP2 is also the new width.

This is going to become a bit of an issue going forward. For e.g. all the current Ligier LMP2s are too wide for the new regs...

Mariantic

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by kvenom

Couldn't they develop the stillborn LMP1 S103?

If they (Strakka) wanted such they could have, I mean Dome even has the windtunnel model and plans ready. But it's pretty obvious they're splitting up the relationship and calling it quits.

And if not even Dome's closest partner wants to invest to them, what are the chances now for anyone else to show interest? Dome itself won't build it unless they get customers. And they've waited for two years and bits to have interest for this stillborn LMP1.

[templer]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Thanks.

At the risk of drifting from the thread I think the SMP - BR Engineering LMP2 is also the new width.

This is going to become a bit of an issue going forward. For e.g. all the current Ligier LMP2s are too wide for the new regs...

Mariantic

No Mariantic,

The BR-01 is also 2000 mm width.

It will be interesting if they will use the S103 monocoque little modified like ByKolles did it or if they will also develop a completely new one.

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by templer

It will be interesting if they will use the S103 monocoque little modified like ByKolles did it or if they will also develop a completely new one.

Well off topic now but interested. Did ByKolles actually slice 50mm off each side of the tub then?

Mariantic

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by templer

No Mariantic,

The BR-01 is also 2000 mm width.

Final little drift... so ORECA were the only ones to get the width "right" for their LMP2 tub?

Lucky

Mariantic

[pirenzo]

They wouldn't need to, the side impact structures bolt on afterwards. It's the survival cell they'd re-use. The floor and sidepods would be new parts.

[templer]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Well off topic now but interested. Did ByKolles actually slice 50mm off each side of the tub then?

Mariantic

No you have no need for. I have no actual data here but I think the monocoque is not wider than maybe 1000 mm. It is the bodywork which is 2000 mm width. So you "only" need to redesign your aero and the suspension for the reduced width. Monocoque can stay the same.

[FIRE]

Great to see them move to LMP1 again but inhouse developed car? Not sure about that. Would rather seem them join forces with an existing manufacturer like Gibson.

Any guess which engine they will use?

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by pirenzo

They wouldn't need to

Originally Posted by templer

No you have no need for

Thanks guys - now I understand

Happy forum user


Mariantic

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by templer

No you have no need for. I have no actual data here but I think the monocoque is not wider than maybe 1000 mm. It is the bodywork which is 2000 mm width. So you "only" need to redesign your aero and the suspension for the reduced width. Monocoque can stay the same.

So all the current tubs from SMP/BR, OAK, Gibson and whatever can be re-used for the new P2 regs/P1? That would save a lot of money and will most certainly boost P1 privateer interest.

Why do I have the feeling I'm missing something here...?

[templer]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

So all the current tubs from SMP/BR, OAK, Gibson and whatever can be re-used for the new P2 regs/P1? That would save a lot of money and will most certainly boost P1 privateer interest.

Why do I have the feeling I'm missing something here...?

Nearly all modern LMP2 cars were based on former LMP1 projects so the tub is the same. For example Oreca, Dome, OAK and maybe Gibson. Not sure on the latter as the LMP2 coupe only existed on the drawing board.

The SMP BR-01 is the only car which was designed purely as LMP2 so the tub cannot be used for a LMP1 car. Mainly for weight and manufacturing reasons.

[Deleted]

In retrospect SMP must be banging its head to the wall with that decision. But it's not their fault ACO screwed it.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by templer

Nearly all modern LMP2 cars were based on former LMP1 projects so the tub is the same. For example Oreca, Dome, OAK and maybe Gibson. Not sure on the latter as the LMP2 coupe only existed on the drawing board.

The SMP BR-01 is the only car which was designed purely as LMP2 so the tub cannot be used for a LMP1 car. Mainly for weight and manufacturing reasons.

Thx, I'm sure the various OAK (and Oreca) customers are happy with the fact their tubes can be re-used if they want to.

SMP has plenty of money to spend it seems so getting a brand new tub for a potential LMP1 program wouldn't be too much of stretch. But it pretty much ends any hope/interest there might have been to sell a car to a customer team.

I would think the Gibson (Zytek) is out as it is a open cockpit tub.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If they (Strakka) wanted such they could have, I mean Dome even has the windtunnel model and plans ready. But it's pretty obvious they're splitting up the relationship and calling it quits.

And if not even Dome's closest partner wants to invest to them, what are the chances now for anyone else to show interest? Dome itself won't build it unless they get customers. And they've waited for two years and bits to have interest for this stillborn LMP1.

Dome as it was, is no more. This was talked about in the Dome thread. What is there to invest in when theyre basically broken up? Toyota bought the windtunnel, the head of Dome is downsizing you could say. So they technically dont have an lmp program. Maybe Strakka takes up the lmp1 s103 rights and goes from there. They are going to use their current s103 for testing btw.

[Giba]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Final little drift... so ORECA were the only ones to get the width "right" for their LMP2 tub?

Lucky

Mariantic

With my cynical hat on, it's like they had inside knowledge of what the future P2 regs would be...

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Final little drift... so ORECA were the only ones to get the width "right" for their LMP2 tub?

Originally Posted by templer

Nearly all modern LMP2 cars were based on former LMP1 projects so the tub is the same. For example Oreca, Dome, OAK and maybe Gibson. Not sure on the latter as the LMP2 coupe only existed on the drawing board.

The SMP BR-01 is the only car which was designed purely as LMP2 so the tub cannot be used for a LMP1 car. Mainly for weight and manufacturing reasons.

Isn't that ironic. The only current P2 car to be allowed into 2017 P2 is the one with the closest link to a modern P1 car of all existing P2 cars (being the by-product of the P1 Rebellion)

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Great to see them move to LMP1 again but inhouse developed car? Not sure about that. Would rather seem them join forces with an existing manufacturer like Gibson.

Any guess which engine they will use?

I guess the only option is AER.

I don´t have a good feeling on this. They aren´t capable of building a top P2 and they move to P1, sounds like the Adess/Kolles/Lotus P2.

[YorkshireLad]

I hope we will see an evolution of this seasons car into an lmp1 beast... They apparently spent an eye watering amount of money on the dome, then their was the redesigning of it after last years 'crash' at Spa before LM2014.

Surely they want to salvage as much of this car and take it forward, otherwise it would seem like it was a complete waste of funds.

[ModelT]

Originally Posted by Chiana

In retrospect SMP must be banging its head to the wall with that decision. But it's not their fault ACO screwed it.

Yes, have to agree with you on that.

But we should not all get too excited about the influx of interest in P1 Privateer, next will probably be the ACO restricts the number of constructors in P1 Privateer to say....French ones only

[Articus]

I can't remember the last time I've been genuinely excited for the LMP privateers class. This is great for Strakka.

About the Gibson....which is really just a Zytek LMP2...which is where it all begin in LMP racing for Strakka. I'd expect them up to speed out of the box.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by Articus

I can't remember the last time I've been genuinely excited for the LMP privateers class. This is great for Strakka.

About the Gibson....which is really just a Zytek LMP2...which is where it all begin in LMP racing for Strakka. I'd expect them up to speed out of the box.

It wouldn´t surprise me if is still the same monocoque

[Gingers4Justice]

There seems to be a little bit of confusion about tubs here. My understanding is that changing the monocoques between the classes isn't the difficult part - it's attaching everything to it and getting it all to work properly as a decent package that's tricky. Someone said that ByKolles have proved it's easy to do - I think the opposite, they've proved it's a huge step up to the top class! Nevertheless, it's perfectly possible and common for monocoques to switch between classes, and a good team will do a good job.

Take the AMR-ONE for example. That will go down as one of the worst manufacturer efforts of the modern age, and yet the monocoque itself was praised and was taken on by a small and under-resourced team who found ten seconds around Le Mans using a different engine and different aero parts around the car.

So, with the DOME starting life as a narrower LMP1 car, I've always suspected that the design is somewhat compromised and explains the performance deficit to some of its rivals, many of which are far less complex designs. Although the regulations in P1 are set to change again, I still feel this starting point is a good one for the team. The S103 started life being designed for different tyres, suspension geometries, levels of downforce, mechanical grip and perhaps most importantly of all a different league of power from the power train.

As for the accusation that ORECA knew something others didn't by designing a tub that won't need major modifications for the new P2 regs, perhaps people are forgetting that it's the same tub used by Rebellion in their P1 car. It wouldn't take a genius to predict that for 2017, the ACO would introduce LMP1 safety standards and narrower cars like the category's older siblings. Nothing underhand or suspicious about that for me, it's just smart planning from the guys and girls at ORECA.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

As for the accusation that ORECA knew something others didn't by designing a tub that won't need major modifications for the new P2 regs, perhaps people are forgetting that it's the same tub used by Rebellion in their P1 car. It wouldn't take a genius to predict that for 2017, the ACO would introduce LMP1 safety standards and narrower cars like the category's older siblings. Nothing underhand or suspicious about that for me, it's just smart planning from the guys and girls at ORECA.

Good point. And traditionally the P1 and P2 tubs were nearly the same in ACO racing. I'm thinking back to the P1's that later became the bases for the current P2 class, or the manufacturers like Lola, Courage, and Zytek that offered both classes based on the same tubs.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

It wouldn't take a genius to predict that for 2017, the ACO would introduce LMP1 safety standards and narrower cars like the category's older siblings.

Am I wrong and hasn't that been (unofficially) announced a while ago? Or at least known by more or less everyone involved in the sportscar business?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Am I wrong and hasn't that been (unofficially) announced a while ago? Or at least known by more or less everyone involved in the sportscar business?

No, you're almost definitely not wrong, but my point was that if it wasn't common knowledge that the regs would head down a similar route to P1 in terms of chassis regulations, then it would be a pretty safe second-guess.

SMP may be frustrated by recent developments, but I'm not sure how sensible their approach has been - seemingly investing a huge amount of money in developing the "Ideal LMP2 Car" in the knowledge that it would be obsolete after a couple of seasons anyway. Not sure I have a lot of sympathy for them.