Donington Park - Project GP 2010

[JimW]

That may be just a temporary (?Planning permission needed?) problem. Even so it represents more delay, both to circuit use this year (and trackday if work interferes (even more) with run off) and to the start of work on infield.

The new owners at Donington now have the use of the land outside the concrete wall so that no longer represents an absolute barrier.

Jim

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by JimW

The new owners at Donington now have the use of the land outside the concrete wall so that no longer represents an absolute barrier.

True, however the planning permission area has boundaries. From the plans on Donington's website there's no much more space outside the tunnel access road.

F3 / GT meeting scheduled for 25/26 April now postponed until 18/19 July.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74474

[mark_l]

There appears to be no great rush to get the work requested by the MSA done.

This is the first high profile meeting to fall because of the work, will the BTCC be next?

Does anyone know if DVL have posted their much talked about accounts yet and when will Gillett announce the debenture scheme that is supposed to fund part/all of the construction work.

[ChrisA]

[QUOTE=mark_l;2440656]

This is the first high profile meeting to fall because of the work, will the BTCC be next?

I believe that the BTCC may well be held at Silverstone, as BARC already have that date there for a clubbie, no problem changing the timetable.

[nyssa7]

The following was sent out by the BRSCC in respect to the planned meeting there first weekend of June:

You are no doubt aware of the track licence issues which have resulted in the cancellation of a number of meetings at Donington Park.

Although our event scheduled for 6th and 7th June is still seven weeks away, there is obvious concern that this event may still be cancelled. To this end we have been in contact with Donington Park to seek assurance that this event will go ahead.

Donington have now informed us that the cause of the track licence issue is that there is a difference of opinion between the FIA and the MSA on the amount of run-off area required on the infield between McLeans and Coppice. They are awaiting clarification from the FIA which they are hopeful of receiving next week. They have also indicated that the work on the outside run-off’s will be completed before the end of May.

Donington have confirmed that they will keep us informed of further developments which we would imagine will be on receipt of a definitive response from the FIA. Please rest assured that we are doing all we can to ensure that this meeting will progress. As and when we have any further information, we will of course let you know.



So, IMHO, if the event doesn't go ahead, there will be no time for the BRSCC to find a replacement event and we will suffer again just like we did in the Donington debacle last November

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by nyssa7

Donington have now informed us that the cause of the track licence issue is that there is a difference of opinion between the FIA and the MSA on the amount of run-off area required on the infield between McLeans and Coppice. They are awaiting clarification from the FIA which they are hopeful of receiving next week. They have also indicated that the work on the outside run-off’s will be completed before the end of May.

I wonder how true this is, sadly I've seen enough spin from Donington to make me doubt most of what is said.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by nyssa7

They have also indicated that the work on the outside run-off’s will be completed before the end of May.

Hang on a sec, a few days ago Donington were saying:

With the bikes, it is the run-off on the outside of the section between McLeans and Coppice and, with cars, to the inside of the same area.
The works needed for bike racing to proceed is minimal and we are confident that that can go ahead.

So the "minimal" work to the outside will be done by the end of May. Just how long are they expecting the infield to take?

[The STIG]

Minimal!? Moving that amount of earth and concrete is Minimal?!

Isn't blind optimism fantastic?

[Chris Y]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74717

I see that "Donington Ventures" is now in trouble from the Wheatcroft family for not paying rent.. Oh dear - this isn't looking good for Donington at all

[Tim Falce]

That's some rent. £2.5M for 7 months, if my arithmetic is correct that's over £11K per day.

[tristancliffe]

I just hope that somehow they (Donington) struggle on, putting on club races and stuff, until the middle of June. By then I'll have raced on the circuit before they ruin it too much with current F1 stuff, and they can do what they like with it.

Sad, but true. They were always going to ruin it by putting F1 on it. They should have spent the money on Silverstone, which of course has already been raped by F1 to the extent that it's too wide and featureless for anything slower than a GP2 car, and thus saved Donington without having to have a bulldozer anywhere near it.

My opinion.

[GroupOfOne]

It's not just the rent that the Wheatcroft family are pushing for, but a forfeiture of the lease too!

In which case would the Wheatcroft's still be seeking to make the changes and put on the GP, or do we think that if they are successful in the courts it would more be a way of 'saving' (if you like) the present Donington?

Also, still not heard anything about these debentures have we? Thought of that when I saw some Wimbledon ones advertised in The Times last week.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by GroupOfOne

...Also, still not heard anything about these debentures have we? Thought of that when I saw some Wimbledon ones advertised in The Times last week.

If I had only fifty quid to invest, would I invest it in Donington? I think if I did it would be the triumph of the heart over the brain.

[Dave 455]

When Tom takes control of the circuit, it will be like it was when live nation ran it, for international car and bike events, he lost too much money in 1993, and has more sense than to even contemplate a G.P again. I'm sure the track will be a much better place with Tom and Kevin in charge and a lot more professional. The sooner the lease is removed from DVLL the better!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Dave 455

I'm sure the track will be a much better place with Tom and Kevin in charge and a lot more professional.

In what respect 'more professional'?

[Dave 455]

It is currently a circus act type business with meetings having to be cancelled by the organisers because the track won't communicate with them, the infield closed with no access despite no buliding work on there, burger bars limited to 1 @ redgate, toliets at a bare minimal, it's just a discrace. The paddock main entrance always closed because DVLL can't afford guards to operate it. Donny is like a 3rd world country to any other track! They even managed to close 2 runways at East Midlands Airport last year by putting up fairground rides and poles without telling the airport. They ended up in court over this. Donington is a shambles! We got 10 days notice of the MSVR meeting cancellation, this only because of Jonathon Palmer, many marshals and racers had to cancel hotels with no refunds. If Jonathon hadn't acted so quickly the cancellation might of only happended a day or two before the meeting. Anyway who could have been so stupid to dig 2 massive holes between Mcleans and Coppice, 1 at each side of the track, protected only by earth and a wall and expect to get a track licence and hold meetings. The mind boggles!

[The STIG]

I am now completely confused about what's going on at Donington. Could someone please post the current situation in Bullet points for the hard of thinking. Thank you so very much in advance.

[mosler lover]

* Gillett and co dug a 5hit creek between Coppice and McLeans
* And couldn't be bothered to put a fence around it
* And forgot to bagsie any money to actually rebuild the place
* So now Tom W will sue for the lease and (hopefully) get it
* And Donington can go back to where it was before.
* With better toilets, hopefully.

Donington can be a great venue again. It's just sad that a deluded F1 dream has buggered up the spring schedule.

[Piglet]

Do the Wheatcrofts really want to run the circuit again? One imagines it's better to sit on one's hands and collect the £3m in rent rather than expose oneself to the risk of operating a race circuit?

I'd imagine that their is little money in Gillet's company in which case (unless there is a guarantor) they will have already lost the best part of £3m by the time the forfeiture is finalised.

They then have to fund the reinstatement of the circuit to make it usable.

By forfeiting the lease they don't gain any rights to the GP (not that they'd want them I imagine) or any rights to Gillet's company so any commercial contracts held by Gillet's company will remain with them or their Administrators to be flogged off as necessary.

I wonder whether in this climate anyone would want to run a race circuit?

[touringlegend]

Thing I don't understand about the tunnel situation is surely the MSA were fully consulted before they said, "OK Let's build it this wide with only this run off"

Smells very fishy.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Thing I don't understand about the tunnel situation is surely the MSA were fully consulted before they said, "OK Let's build it this wide with only this run off"

Smells very fishy.

I'm told that they weren't consulted. Less haddock and more incompetence I think.....

[Dave 455]

No worries on that front at all, racing is in Tom's and Kevin's blood, Tom lives for Donington and always has, you only need to read his book to realise this, Kevin is the same, they will make Donington. All of their enthusiasm is directed towards racing and entertaining people and not making money, the track could not be in any safer hands when they regain control! They are both honest enthusastic racing fanatics and Donington will become a great track in their control, look at the Donington Collection formed by Tom, look at the great venue Donington was a few years back, and the hard work Tom wheatcroft went through to open Donington in the first place and then the hard work to get that 1993 GP.
I know Kevin has the same enthusiasm. Under the Wheatcrofts Control Donington will be a great place for all again.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Dave 455

It is currently a circus act type business with meetings having to be cancelled by the organisers because the track won't communicate with them, the infield closed with no access despite no buliding work on there, burger bars limited to 1 @ redgate, toliets at a bare minimal, it's just a discrace. The paddock main entrance always closed because DVLL can't afford guards to operate it. Donny is like a 3rd world country to any other track! They even managed to close 2 runways at East Midlands Airport last year by putting up fairground rides and poles without telling the airport. They ended up in court over this. Donington is a shambles!

You need to make up your mind as to your position about why events have been cancelled. Is it the track licence issue - which they may have misjudged or been given misguided information perhaps? - or is it because they didn't seem to be communicating with organizers? I would suggest its both to some extent - but purely based on what has been published in the 'press' and a few announcements and speculation on forums. An interesting mix.

I don't suppose either of us know the answer to those questions but there seem to me to be a lot of places that have licences but are and always have been less forgiving should a driver or rider have a moment. Often for more of the course as well. Thus it may have been expected to be not so much a problem for a few weeks. Wrong as we now know but likely to be the result of confusion all round. I was at a couple of test sessions in late March. I didn't hear of anyone packing up and going home because it was too dangerous. If you don't know what to tell people, given quite a difficult situation to deal with politically, that may end up becoming a lack of communication in some people's eyes. It's all too common throughout life these days I find. But that aside for now ...

I would imagine that the infield closure is both a security and Health and Safety issue. Possibly insurance concerns too. More a sign of the times than a sign of incompetence I suspect, though it could be both. They probably can't do anything other than close it off. Only a big meeting would justify the cost and effort of opening it up. Sad, annoying but realistic. And there IS building work going on in there and so additional potential danger that they must bve seen to be doing something about. It has been like that since the MotoX track was started, mostly.

I won't comment on the burger bar scenario except to observe that catering matters seem to have been a battleground for some time and may not be the sole responsibility of DVLL. That said there were a number of outlets available on 4th and especially 5th April as usual for a meeting that attracts more than a coachful of spectators.

Toilet facilites were about the same as usual as far as I could see. In the public accessible areas only the Starkey's bar faciltiy waas not available (nor was Starkey's bar of course. Far too few people around to justify opening it and sweeping the new decking area of its winter leaves.)

I can't comment on Coppice as it has no public access at the moment and has not had since late last year. A shame, it has been one of my favourite locations.

I think you will find that the paddock main entrance is closed for a number of reasons not the least of which is a seemingly successful attempt to stop traveller camps on the helipad site. (Alos the main gate area seems free of such establishments these days.) Other things like work on the Isley Walton to Melbourne road earlier this year which saw it closed for some time may have also had an influence. It may also help the confused members of the public looking for the Sunday market who seem unable to read and understand road signs giving them clear directions. They, of course, would want the next entrance

Yes the gate security is a bind at times but it makes sense in reality. The Main Entrance should indeed BE the main entrance through which people travel most often. Of course it also helps to market the other attractions - like the museum and the Exhibition centre - but mostly it provides a fairly sensible security facility through which stolen motorbikes and cars would need to pass ...


It was not that long ado that there was little or no security around - how can you then complain that they have closed an entrance because they can't afford the security? It maybe that they can't afford it anymore or so rumour tells us, but your logic about an entrance seems well off beam.

Donington's facilities and general appearance had become pretty shabby before DVLL took over. Presumably that was down to Clear Channel/Live Nation. Love or hate the revised colour schemes the new signs and paint certainly made a difference to the place. As for being a third world track - not compared to some of the places I have visited over the years. I have been in worse motorway service areas, though usually just at the end of life cycle before they had huge amount of money invested and the prices doubled.

As for the Airport, it did indeed seem that there were some strange temporary structure placings last year but I don't actually recall any mention of a runway closure. Bear in moind that the temporary structure agreements that do exxist are quite conservative and have more to do with possible radar and landing systems interference than flight path incursion. As far as I know the greater risk is of an aircraft getting things wrong and 'landing' in the park. I recall a British Midland plane on a training flight doing just that some years ago. There may have been a light aircraft as well a while later.

I would also point out that the last time drove past the airport (last week) it still only had one runway so why there should be claims for two being shut down I'm not sure.

I'm sure the airport owners would like a second runway though and would not be averse to anything they could use to help then reach that objective. Or even just an extension of their operating capability on the current runway. That would, of course, mean extending towards or ito the circuit area to install landing lights and control systems ... apparently the runway is already in place but not visible.

I have no brief for Donington other than I live close by and so it is extremely convenient and as such is a resource that I would to have available in the future. I don't really care about the Grand Prix being there, it's not something I would wish to pay to see, not at currently typical prices at least. But I do think if one tosses comments into a forum it is probably best to make them as accurate as possible and reflect on how they might be (mis)interpreted by people too far away to check for themselves.


Grant

[JimW]

Originally Posted by grantp

. . .
As for the Airport, As far as I know the greater risk is of an aircraft getting things wrong and 'landing' in the park. I recall a British Midland plane on a training flight doing just that some years ago. There may have been a light aircraft as well a while later.
. . .

And that BM flight was after one (?two?) Aer Lingus planes "landed short".

Regards

Jim

[mark_l]

Having watched the interview with Simon Gillett on the BBC website, all I can say is he talks a good fight but actions speak louder than words, the silence is deafening.

You could see in the interview the infield has hardly been touched, the MotoX track is still there, maybe if a digger had trundled past in the background I would of been more convinced this man could back up his words with actions.