Fuel (lead) additives, what do you use ?

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I've not had the luxury of testing fuels on the dyno, and we can;t use leaded on the one I use anyway because of the lambda sensor. although that must be an issue that can be rectified

Forgot that most important point re lambda, use gas probe. our fuel testing carried out by laboratory. whether relevent 12:1 ratio @ 14-7psi atmospheric pressure, cam duraton of 320' given 1-5ltr BRM internal dimensions @ 11k equates to a c.r of 17-6:1, ignition advanced under load to 63' BTDC before power started to fall off, fuel required a little something extra. Same engine but with static 11:1 ratio equates to 16-5:1 same advance engine happy with 50/50 Spit/Shell. Addendum; 12:1 ratio, valves dinged pistons, 11:1 OK same piston to valve clearance ex .035" BTDC in .025" ATDC on both.

[zefarelly]

we use a lambda ( most engines on the dyno are new . . . and managed ) so a probe would eliminate 4* issues, hopefully it'd work with the AFR system, I'll find out as if theres gains ( and there must be) to be had by using better (legal where applicable) fuel then I'll have some please, if it aids reliability also then great

we'll see what this years experiments do . . .setting the first on up on rollers as its not that much of an experiment . . .

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Al,

Which part of "was" means now?

SOrry Pete but I had heard from others Millers was the only legal one.

[delta]

This is a very usefull thread well done for starting it "haggispeed". Question for p260brm when you said Spitfire fuel is that the same as Av Gas.??

[terence]

Used to be able to get that quite easily Iain,then a mate left the airfield.
I dont usually bother with anything other than decent pump fuel,11.5 cr and no problem with csr or anything else,tis but a tractor engine though.

[Al Weyman]

Surely Avgas with the blue dye is illegal as its not roadside pump fuel.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by delta

This is a very usefull thread well done for starting it "haggispeed". Question for p260brm when you said Spitfire fuel is that the same as Av Gas.??

There are 2 Avgas octane/lead ratings as I understand Ian. The fuel in fact came out of a Hurricane courtesy of Dithers, which had a British Mk1 Merlin. [Most Merlin's are Mk3 and made in the USof A where else, spose that piece of totally usless should be in the totally usless information thread] top and bottom higher octane rating required.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Surely Avgas with the blue dye is illegal as its not roadside pump fuel.

FIA regs it may well be Al, but can not find any mention in the HGPCA regs, who do not subscribe to FIA rules anyway, and to be fair on the dyno....

I was trying my best to find a reasonable level of power and torque from a 40 year old mich match engine converted from 2ltr to 1-5 a converstion that BRM never carried in period, like most of us at this level of motor sport on a tight budget, to give a driver, one of the best about an even chance of competing with brand new Climax V8's, so rules or no rules anything went, and those who took over the job after my efforts were rubbished have had even less sucess, two engines built and neither ever made it to the grid. Now it's Hooray for Duckworth and Costin.

[haggispeed]

Originally Posted by delta

This is a very usefull thread well done for starting it "haggispeed".

Well I'll hopefully have my A Sport (1700) engine back this year and am out of Tetraboost so trying to decide whether to order more or start ordering Sunoco 4* 100

[terence]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Surely Avgas with the blue dye is illegal as its not roadside pump fuel.

Who mentioned 'Blue Dye'.

[Mike Bell]

I can remember in WRC early 90s using Avgas in Southern Hemisphere event- the exhausts ran so clean, and the smell was different......

And for some reason same period the word Toluene or something similar comes to mind?

Now both my BDG and 'B' series lumps run on 97 unleaded, which makes life simple. Not sure about the Vanguard engine in the other thing though- need to check that one!

[GORDON STREETER]

One of my mates used to work at a tar distillers and one of the byproducts was toluene. He ran his old Hillman Minx and AJS motorbike on it for years mixed with "something else" that he distilled to make it vaporize, he never had any problems.
But it did stink !!!! I seem to remember it being used in F1 a few years back ?

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I can remember in WRC early 90s using Avgas in Southern Hemisphere event- the exhausts ran so clean, and the smell was different......

And for some reason same period the word Toluene or something similar comes to mind?

Now both my BDG and 'B' series lumps run on 97 unleaded, which makes life simple. Not sure about the Vanguard engine in the other thing though- need to check that one!

The only thing I find with Lucas mechanical injection, is 97 octane pump fuel has no lubrication properties so UCL or similar a must, I use Lucas oils product since the old Redex has gone, those old enough to remember Stan the redex man, last I heard he was still with us in the USofA. and yes toulene still works.

[zefarelly]

I thought Avgas was slow burn? so even if it has higher octane its not so god for screamers?

Should this discussion/thread be renamed Petrology, makes it sound legit!

[Al Weyman]

I think thats why the Toulene is put in as well Zef. Be careful with toulene, (a) its illegal and (b) it carcegenic i.e. can give you cancer if in contact with the skin, not nice stuff. In one of my Steve Smith books he says Av Gas and 20% toulene is the same specific gravity as pump fuel and will give a lot of octane. My brother is an industrial chemist and asked him about the stuff once and he warned me of its dangers and told me not to fool with it.

I dunno all these threads on cheating in historics and some guys here are openly stating they use Av Gas and stuff like toulene, come on fellas thats as much a cheat even more so than some of the stuff that has been discussed. Pump gas is pump gas i.e. stuff you can buy at tescos or anywhere else, lower your compressions and/or retard your ignition so they can run on that job done and no cheating. I know someone with a well known preparers V6 Essex Capri engine who tells me he HAS to run an illegal brew or the thing will break, no wonder they beat me! When you follow this car it actually smells different as stated above, bloody cheating in my book, sorry.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Be careful with toulene, (b) it carcegenic i.e. can give you cancer if in contact with the skin,
.

So is used engine oil according to the powers that be.
Of course I've never got any on me in the last 45+ years

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

My brother is an industrial chemist and asked him about the stuff once and he warned me of its dangers and told me not to fool with it.

And there we were mixing it in the dark with bare hands breathing in the fumes.......

OT but sometimes wonder how survived early years breathing in the asbestos dust when blowing out brake drums every day. On well used brakes it smelled great.......

Al, I am a pure 97 octane man, so not guilty!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

OT but sometimes wonder how survived early years breathing in the asbestos dust when blowing out brake drums every day. On well used brakes it smelled great.......

Just because we survived then doesn't mean we are now immune, I knew plenty of people who dealt with asbestos products and waste who are no longer here.

[terence]

Tolulene is used in many products,paint,paint thinners etc,it is also used in some oil's as well.I have often wondered about the older drivers who did nothing but breath in brake dust just about every weekend,still quite a few still with us.

[p261brm]

So, using 'a little something extra for the weekend' accounts to cheating, would not have to if we could buy the stuff our old out of date engines were designed to run on, good old well leaded 5 star and with that ignition systems would not have to be suplimented by modern paraphanalia to achieve ignition advance way beyond the 38* originally required;to burn the overpriced rubbish available from the pump, all because some silly red brick university under educated jerk whilst making excuses for their own exsistance, reckons it might be injurious to my life style! looking at my photo of Ray Hanna and his 9B 15ft. above the pits at woodygood burning up a bit o 140 octane

[terence]

I thought I said that I HAD used it,not that I still am Al.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

So is used engine oil according to the powers that be.
Of course I've never got any on me in the last 45+ years

I thought you washed your hair with it ?

[terence]

It is used in some shampoos Zef.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by terence bower

It is used in some shampoos Zef.

Spose that accounts for the increasing need not to visit the barbers,'would sir like a little something on' why? so it shines in the dark and all moths can home in on it.

[zefarelly]

so you admit to using greacian2000 ?

as opposed to Castrolman'76