[WEC Race] 2016 Round 4 - 6hours of Nürburgring

[gert]

Originally Posted by AndreasDavour

HD tracks?

I think he means high downforce

[AndreasDavour]

Originally Posted by J Jay

High downforce, so circuits with lots of mid-high speed corners that focus on total downforce more than outright efficiency.

Ah, naturally. Stupid me. Thanks.

I would love to see the Toyota from Le Mans back. That pace and we would have had more of a fight today.

Well. Decent race with some really good points and a lot of just driving around.

[TF110]

At least Mexico will have decent hours. Being honest though, I can't get into an Audi vs Porsche only battle. I hope Toyota are in it next round. Should be a no-brainer in tire choice there since its always hot.

[ederss7]

Great coverage from Fox Sports here. The whole race live.

[Toyotats03OUS]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Really annoying having the commentators going bananas over a battle that's not even on screen.and this isn't the first time they've done this,race was ok.good battles between porsche and audi.but like tf110 not worth it for me to wake up at random times in the a.m. I missed the start and struggled to stay awake in the first three hours.

That was really annoying !!!! And that went on for about 2 minute and the still never showed the battle !!..

[GT6]

That is the fault of the tv company as the race was not over and most people wanted to hear what was happening to effect places, Glad they were speaking about it sad the pictures were not showing it

[chernaudi]

It's clear from this race that Audi are back on pace as far as the speed end of the equation. I think that their refueling times vs Porsche and Toyota need to be looked at, but the speed in the car is back.

Porsche locked this one up more on strategy than anything else. Those stops that allowed them to leapfrog both Audis about a 100 laps in sort of sealed things up unless the Audis really went on a tear in terms of pace. But aside from when Lotterer dropped the hammer when he got back in the car, from then on out they largely held station for the most part.

Once the #2 Porsche had it's issues, Audi seemed to settle into cruse mode, seemingly realizing that pushing like hell wouldn't gain them much. They decided to go for max points because the win seemed to be out of reach in the end.

The #2 Porsche finishing 4th and barely on the lead lap (and that sort of depends on if the ACO call them for a penalty for the alleged pit infraction) wasn't the day they were looking for. They seemed to fall off late in Leib's stint where Hartley and DiGrassi were both running him down, the contact with the #88 911 didn't help, let alone the penalty they got, Jani struggling with Duval, getting hounded by Lotterer, and finally having to change the rear of the car shows that they day was pretty much a mess.

That being said, it could've been a lot worse. Spinning out in traffic on a restart isn't a good thing (even if the time lost was minimal in the end), and if the #2 hit that Porsche GT car in the right place or any harder, that could've knocked them out of contention, too.

And Toyota? What can be said? Drivers and team did their part at the track. I don't know what the #6's issue was, but they lost about 4 laps in the garage and all I could tell was that they were working around in the engine bay. They didn't want that. Also, more bad news down the road is that the #5 team are currently on their last engine before incurring penalties for using more than 5 engines in a season. The #5 team's season has basically been a nightmare with unrewarded efforts at Spa and of course Le Mans. I don't see that changing if the stuff with the engine use penalties are true and especially if they (Toyota as a whole) keep lunching engines.

Also, as with last year and at Silverstone, TMG seem to still be struggling aero balance/overall downforce on the high downforce tracks. I hope that practice and qualifying was just them being on a program, but even Buemi admitted that the thinks that Toyota lack downforce.

That might not be hugely bad at Shanghai, Bahrain or COTA because of a lot of start/stop, but Nurburgring is a lot of start and stop, too, and Audi and Porsche were clearly on another level relative to Toyota.

IMO, this also shows the danger of the bodywork kit limit that ironically Toyota have been very supportive of. I know that TMG have their own wind tunnels, which are about second to none in terms of quality (most F1 teams have been to TMG at least once or twice the past few years since they pulled out of F1), but when you screw up your aero kit, you're basically stuck with it unless the ACO say you can change it though a waiver. But that would almost be tantamount to being full on BOP back to LMP1, which right now the only BOP is though the EOT process, with everything else being essentially free within the technical regulations.

Granted, you can make minor changes to the bodywork for development purposes, but if things are messed up beyond that, you're sorta screwed.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Every endurance race ever has been decided on qualifying pace. No point watching tomorrow, we know for a cast iron fact that it will be Audi, Audi, Porsche, Porsche, Toyota, Toyota.

wise sarcasm. Obviously race pace differs from QLF pace as well as other factors come into play such as reliability, driver error..... during the 6h, but today it was very bad imo that the fastest car didn't win despite doing nothing wrong all race.

It's quite annoying to realise that, in WEC, you don't win by being the fastest car, on track, but by cheating(playing tricks, if one doesn't think it's illegal) with the refueling and having NASCAR-esque calls from the race director!

People often bash IMSA and NASCAR for the abuse of artificiality but today WEC was very sad, in such sense.

Audi being faster on track(3 tenths on actual and ideal lap), to then gets an awful lot of time lost after every pitstop was already farcical enough for me but then the debatable FCY that would've gifted the win, and tittle, to the #2, was truly disgusting.

I think Freitas should've waited a little to avoid interfering with the overall win result(was just one rather small piece on the track, afterall) but even if we assume the decision to have been correct, ACO/FIA seriously needs to rethink, imho, the rules of FCY.

You can't close the pit because somebody might be short on fuel or something, but it's very important that something is done to avoid the artifice we witnessed today(like closing the pit exit). Does the WEC wants to be like NASCAR, Indycar.... that manufacturers results with calls of yellows/SC?

Also the punishment for Lieb's mistake was quite lenient and seemed to me like orchestrated to spice up the race with putting the #2 right behind the #8.

Sure, some people will say:"why are you complaining? we had great racing from the VAGs, and all classes overall, today."

My thinking is that just because there was plenty of good stuff in the race doesn't mean that we need to overlook what was seriously wrong with it.

PS: Very sad about the dismal pace of Toyota as a 3-way fight would've been epic. If they didn't bother to show up at any of the remaining races, it wouldn't make any difference(unless some other layout massively suits their car) and that's really sad.

[chernaudi]

KCMG has been penalized pending appeal. Officials have declassified the car for a ride height irregularity somewhat similar to the penalty the #7 Audi got at Silverstone this year and one of the ESM ARX-03s at Silverstone '15.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by TF110

At least Mexico will have decent hours. Being honest though, I can't get into an Audi vs Porsche only battle. I hope Toyota are in it next round. Should be a no-brainer in tire choice there since its always hot.

the hour is pretty much the same as every European F1 round. Aren't you a big F1 fan?

As you said, it's not worthy for you because Toyota was where I said they would be. Some people only watch to cheer for a team......

Toyota will need Spa's fluke again to be a contender this year(imo), ie, be the only car with optimal tires available. On equal tires, what you'll have is today and Silverstone....

Mexico's Mickey Mouse layout could favour TS050 but the altitude will tough for the NA engine, so ACO needs to correctly balance things there

[chernaudi]

The NA engine argument doesn't hold water for Toyota this year because they have a turbocharged V6 in the TS050. That'd effect the LMP2 cars a bit if everyone wasn't running a Nissan V8.

It's gonna be a much bigger deal in GTE-Pro since we have turbo engines (Ford and Ferrari) vs atmo engines (Aston Martin and Porsche).

[Acid09]

Part of Toyota's problem is that they build a car that is suited to Le Mans and was supposed to shine at Le Mans, which it did.

Granted, they ultimately got nothing for it in reward, which makes it extra frustrating, as they now have to live with the drawbacks for the rest of the season. Had they managed to run those elusive 1 1/2 laps, they`d be the smartest guys in the paddock now... but it wasn't meant to be.

[TF110]

Cant write off their car or chances yet. Thats the first time they ran this aero and seemingly they made the wrong choice of tire. Not sure what you're talking about with f1, Arthur. What's f1 have to do with Mexico's wec start time? It's in the western hemisphere, that means it won't start at 4am pacific time for me. You must have misunderstood or something.

[Deleted]

Pretty standard order of things judging by the results-PDF

I read the CLM exploded (again) and AER failed on #12 (again) but how did #13 manage to be so slow to just barely beat LMP2 (again)?

[TF110]

That AER is not a good/reliable engine. If I were one of these guys I'd have a good look at the Judd or hope for the Super GT engines to be available.

[Deleted]

AER has always been bit shady but it's a total disaster here

I'm not sure if something else can even be fit to these chassis, it took ages from Oreca to mod the AER into the existing Toyota compartment too

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

At least Mexico will have decent hours. Being honest though, I can't get into an Audi vs Porsche only battle. I hope Toyota are in it next round. Should be a no-brainer in tire choice there since its always hot.

Unfortunately, the track is another Tilke-tarmac-nized one...

[Articus]

Originally Posted by TF110

Cant write off their car or chances yet. Thats the first time they ran this aero and seemingly they made the wrong choice of tire. Not sure what you're talking about with f1, Arthur. What's f1 have to do with Mexico's wec start time? It's in the western hemisphere, that means it won't start at 4am pacific time for me. You must have misunderstood or something.

It's ironic how a poor choice of tire for Toyota is suddenly a valid explanation for poor performance today, but it just couldn't have been a reason for why Audi, Porsche were slow at Spa right?....

Atleast, now we all have been shown that there are too many variables at play to predict any outcome.

[TzeiTzei]

Maybe I'm just in my summer mood, but I just wasn't feeling this race. [Or maybe it's because I watched F1 and that was quite depressing] It all seemed kind of dull. Even though the battle in LMP1 was very tight. Once Porcsche got a bit of an advantage, to me it never really looked like Audi were going to win this. The Toyotas weren't far behind, but they were just sort of also rans.

LMP2 wasn't that exciting either. Maybe if the #26 hadn't retired. GTs... don't care.

To end this on a more positive note, I'm impressed that they announced the date of next year's race already. Good job. I also like the track. Not because it's anything special, but because it's a bit different to the usual Tilkering.

[JoeW04]

Originally Posted by TF110

That AER is not a good/reliable engine. If I were one of these guys I'd have a good look at the Judd or hope for the Super GT engines to be available.

Sounds good but I think that's about it

[Matt]

Hmm, two more pit fires in the supposedly "safer" ACO style of pit stop...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Matt

Hmm, two more pit fires in the supposedly "safer" ACO style of pit stop...

Nothing to do with the style of fuel stop, everything to do with faults in the fuelling process either on the car or on the rig. Looked like massive tank blowback on the Ford coupled with a valve sticking open.

Plus, with the ACO stype of pit stop, there were less people around the car and the fire marshals were able to get to the fire far quicker without tripping over mechanics working on the tire changes.

[Matt]

I just find it funny how everyone bashed the crap out of the IMSA style pit stops and said that there was gonna be a whole mess of fuel fires. There was one very small one at the Rolex a few ears ago and that was it. The WEC has had two in this race alone, and quite a few more over the past few years.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Matt

I just find it funny how everyone bashed the crap out of the IMSA style pit stops and said that there was gonna be a whole mess of fuel fires. There was one very small one at the Rolex a few ears ago and that was it. The WEC has had two in this race alone, and quite a few more over the past few years.

The Ford was a failure on the car, not the fueling equipment or style. The fact it was reported before the race and was still started in that condition is somewhat worrying.

Doesn't matter what system you use, if you have a non-return valve that's allowing returns, that's not going to end well for anyone.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Articus

It's ironic how a poor choice of tire for Toyota is suddenly a valid explanation for poor performance today, but it just couldn't have been a reason for why Audi, Porsche were slow at Spa right?....

I'm glad someone else notices it

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Maybe I'm just in my summer mood, but I just wasn't feeling this race. [Or maybe it's because I watched F1 and that was quite depressing] It all seemed kind of dull.

Well, if you choosen to watch F1 instead of WEC, then it's very likely that most WEC races will not please you very much. I mean, normally(don't mean to say all fans are like that) sportscar racing fans don't like DRS, tire gimmick kind of thing. WEC is not about exchanging positions all the time(something F1 pushed/forced it's show to be since 2011), you have to like to see the races naturally develops.

I think Toyota's best chance will be on Mexico because the layout isn't much different than Nurb's S3 and TS050 was very quick there.

I agree with Acid09, Toyota's effort was all on LM and they were very competent. It was quite clear to me since the Prologue that they wouldn't bother with the HD tracks