DJRTP To Holden???

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Ospi

I don't know the solution, they're already in **** with Ford gone and likely to be unrepresented in the near future and I can't see Nissan hanging around much longer, so then what

Perhaps Supercars should step in and pay Ford and Nissan to participate in the series, rather than the other way round!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Perhaps Supercars should step in and pay Ford and Nissan to participate in the series, rather than the other way round!

That’s sensible economics... to pay someone to advertise THEIR product

Wanna buy a bridge?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

That’s sensible economics... to pay someone to advertise THEIR product

Hehe. Well Tickford and DJRTP sure aren't gonna pay on behalf of Ford, so someone has to else it will be a Commodore Cup.

Betty did exactly what you suggest and yes it was VERY foolish indeed, when the team even had a FG Falcon Car of the Future fully prepared, tested and ready to race, with a fully developed fleet of correct specification Windsors to plonk in the engine bay (and constructing two more Falcons to start the season would have been trivial at that point of research and development).

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Wanna buy a bridge?

Dropping the above well engineered groundwork was very much on the scale of buying the Sydney harbour bridge from a Nigerian Prince.

DJRTP will definitely not do something so stupid as developing a car with no manufacturer support... They are smart operators.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Hehe. Well Tickford and DJRTP sure aren't gonna pay on behalf of Ford, so someone has to else it will be a Commodore Cup.

Betty did exactly what you suggest and yes it was VERY foolish indeed, when the team even had a FG Falcon Car of the Future fully prepared, tested and ready to race, with a fully developed fleet of correct specification Windsors to plonk in the engine bay (and constructing two more Falcons to start the season would have been trivial at that point of research and development).







Dropping the above well engineered groundwork was very much on the scale of buying the Sydney harbour bridge from a Nigerian Prince.

DJRTP will definitely not do something so stupid as developing a car with no manufacturer support... They are smart operators.

your missing a key item though, its just bodywork in the case of the ford, same motor, the teams built new composite turret and bonnet in two weeks with their own money.

Betty went a different way with a new motor as well

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Ospi

The problem the series has is that it appears the fans want to retain the status quo while new manufacturers seem to have no interest in the series as it currently stands. Someone has to adapt.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Yes, my point when I questioned what SC's reaction would be if some one wanted to run a different drive train. It is all tied to the manic parity mind set that surrounds SC, it worked with two manufacturers but will not work with a diverse entry list. A two manufacturer entry model has now fallen by the wayside and is kaput so to speak so there has to be a more liberal allowance of what they will allow to attract other manufacturer interest. If they don't open it up enabling the Euro manufacturers in and also the Asian ones but the Europeans are the ones who need to be fostered then the series is committing suicide by their own hand. I know it is blasphemy to voice those thought here but physics as they say is physics.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Casper

Yes, my point when I questioned what SC's reaction would be if some one wanted to run a different drive train. It is all tied to the manic parity mind set that surrounds SC, it worked with two manufacturers but will not work with a diverse entry list. A two manufacturer entry model has now fallen by the wayside and is kaput so to speak so there has to be a more liberal allowance of what they will allow to attract other manufacturer interest. If they don't open it up enabling the Euro manufacturers in and also the Asian ones but the Europeans are the ones who need to be fostered then the series is committing suicide by their own hand. I know it is blasphemy to voice those thought here but physics as they say is physics.

Don't worry about the haters mate, you couldn't be more right about the current state of affairs. I also think V8SC are digging their own grave by so stubbornly sticking to their current formula. I wonder how much longer they will watch it shrink, watch the Manufacturers leave, and the fanbase leave when it becomes the Commodore Cup, before they realise the formula needs updating.

To me the whole "need manufacturers' approval to run a body shape" is a of the bigger problems. Why is that rule in there? I don't know of another series that has that rule? Surely if people want to race xyz car, but its' manufacturer doesn't want to be involved, they're not going to deny it being raced - free publicity and all?? It's a stupid rule that I can't see any benefit of. Once you've purchased a car / house / refrigerator, surely it's yours to do what you want with it, without having to ask permission from it's manufacturer to do this or that with it? MARC runs whatever body they feel like over a space frame chassis, and no one is dragging them to court over it, so what is V8SC's problem with doing the same??

[Umai Naa]

Easy solution is to stop referring to them as Holden/Ford/Nissan/etc.

Sure, the car can look like whatever it intends to look like, carry the grille badge, etc. But perhaps refrain from insisting that it is a Holden/Ford/Nissan. The fanbase (hopefully), and marketing departments are wise enough to distinguish between the shapes.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Easy solution is to stop referring to them as Holden/Ford/Nissan/etc.

Sure, the car can look like whatever it intends to look like, carry the grille badge, etc. But perhaps refrain from insisting that it is a Holden/Ford/Nissan. The fanbase (hopefully), and marketing departments are wise enough to distinguish between the shapes.

So what happens if Audi (for instance) wanted to run a five cylinder turbo in front of an DSG or torque converter auto?

[Umai Naa]

They can fit whatever engine they like, in the existing chassis, using the existing transaxle.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

They can fit whatever engine they like, in the existing chassis, using the existing transaxle.

Not what I wrote, they want to run their own trans.

[Umai Naa]

Do they?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Do they?

Whoooosh!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

your missing a key item though, its just bodywork in the case of the ford, same motor, the teams built new composite turret and bonnet in two weeks with their own money.

That's true but it's also easy to work out that Mr. Penske didn't get where where he is by spending his own money.

[V8 Fireworks]

Hmm... Have I missed something...

If Ford are not interested, why not try Mazda!? Mazda are a zoom-zoom motorsport brand.

All you need is permission (which you won't get from Ford) even if DJRTP have to pay for the homologation themselves.

A triple-rotor twin-turbo Mazda6 would be epic! Albeit perhaps the fuel economy wouldn't be the best, to say the least... :P

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

A triple-rotor twin-turbo Mazda6 would be epic! Albeit perhaps the fuel economy wouldn't be the best, to say the least... :P

Talk about flogging a dead horse, you positively exhumed that one.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Talk about flogging a dead horse, you positively exhumed that one.

Oh. Sorry.

I do love rotaries, they are lovely. And under Gen 2 (or Gen 3), theoretically any powertrain configuration could be balanced to be competitive! (though perhaps not so much in the area of oil consumption )

[F J Nedos]

They wouldn't worry with a chook cooker, more like a turbo 4.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I do love rotaries, they are lovely. And under Gen 2 (or Gen 3), theoretically any powertrain configuration could be balanced to be competitive! (though perhaps not so much in the area of oil consumption )

Why on earth would someone go racing with a technology that has had its day and is totally dead?

Mazda is also no longer the Zoom-Zoom company, they have chosen high efficiency petrol engines over smaller capacity turbos, and this means none of their cars can suck the skin off a custard.

We used to have the manic Mazda 3 MPS, and the sublime Mazda 6 MPS, but now we have nothing.

[Sandgroper]

Storm in a tea-cup, just a publicity stunt. They wont.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mixer

We used to have the manic Mazda 3 MPS, and the sublime Mazda 6 MPS, but now we have nothing.

I agree with the less inspiring range but aint that the way with all manufacturers now.?
Im sure Mazda are happy enough knowing they sold nearly 50% more vehicles in Aus than Ford did last year. (Mazda 116,000 to Ford 78,000)

[Compromised]

Jeez some (not so much here) are still stuck in the whole tribal thing...my cave is better than your cave etc.

If we must retain this atavistic aspect, why not steal something from Speedway. In Europe they have teams, very similar to football teams. It's the teams (and riders) who the fans support, not Jawa.

We need to transition so that it's T8 vs DJR, it's people decking themselves out in full team kit, it's the team who gets supported. This already happens of course, but i think some still associate their support more with a manufacturer than with the team itself

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by E.B

I agree with the less inspiring range but aint that the way with all manufacturers now.?

No, VW led the charge but now we have most of the Euro-centric manufacturers and even GM offering lower capacity turbo engines in place of a larger NA engine. VW's 1.4 turbo as one example is an incredibly torquey, great sounding engine that is so far better than a 2L NA it just isn't funny.

Originally Posted by E.B

Im sure Mazda are happy enough knowing they sold nearly 50% more vehicles in Aus than Ford did last year. (Mazda 116,000 to Ford 78,000)

Mazda did set a record in 2017, which only proves that the average car buyer likes their shopping trolley bland.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Mazda did set a record in 2017, which only proves that the average car buyer likes their shopping trolley bland.

Mazdas are frequently the best cars in their class, the CX5 arguably the best CUV, the Mx5 considered by most to be better than it's FIAT twin (enough to have this Dutch journalist grinning from ear to ear -- slow car fast = maximum smiles), and NA engines are my preference and that of many Australian buyer.

Turbos may produce peak torque at 1500rpm but it's often only maintained until a dismal 4500rpm and then the fun's all over, meanwhile the Mazda driver is happy zoom-zooming to 6500rpm (7500rpm in the 1.5L MX5).

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

VW's 1.4 turbo as one example is an incredibly torquey, great sounding engine that is so far better than a 2L NA it just isn't funny.

I must strongly disagree.

If that 1.4L is "incredibly torquey", perhaps you could explain to me why it's considered not torquey enough for the US market who get a stronger 1.8 turbo instead.

The 1.4 seems therefore more like an economy option to me... Even the Civic and Focus, have larger 1.5 turbo and 1.6 turbos respectively.

On the topic of NA vs turbo refer back to the Dutch chap in the MX5:

This 1.5L 130hp naturally aspirated MX5 is so much more fun than most turbocharged hot hatches with 200 to 250hp. It really, really is.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

On the topic of NA vs turbo refer back to the Dutch chap in the MX5:

Come on dude, that's a comparison against cars with a roof and 4 seats vs a convertible two seater (didnt need to add ballast either )