Is this what VESA intended?

[pete55]

The current adjusted points score has a driver leading because his adjusted score gives him minus 0 points. Does this mean that all the leading drivers in the championship should fail to score points in one round so that they are on level peg with that driver come time for the final adjustment in points. I know if i was in the championship hunt and this is allowed i would certainly be DNFing a round so i wouldn't be disadvantaged.

[TSR]

That is a interesting thought & point Pete? Will make some team manager think even harder I suppose.

[peckstar]

think you might be misunderstanding things pete, their is no advantage in DNF, but if you only have one, it dosnt hurt. if you have two kiss the championship goodbye

[pete55]

Yes i know that, the point is that it is possible somebody in the last 'Drop Your Worst Score' round may consider getting a DNF if it was to his benefit in the championship.

[peckstar]

how would it benifit his championship. there is no possibly way that it can be of benifit

lets do some simple cals

driver a scores in the first 4 rounds 200 points at each round total 800 points or 600 after dropped round

so if in round 5 i score another 200 points. i am now 1000 points before and800 points after dropped round
if i score a zero i am still 800 points beforer dropped round but also after it drops.

the diifferenece is there is no fall back now.

if i scored a zero at round 6. i jump to 1000 points in the first scenario or stay at 800 under the 2nd

so 200,200,200,200,200,0 = 1000
200,200,200,200,0,0 = 800

[Pro Racer]

dont think anyone would DNF the big one on the mountain but i think they would tak the gamble on the second last drop your worst resault round.

[peckstar]

you mean like murph and ambrose last year or do you mean delibratly

but at any point there is no advanage in DNFing,

if come bathurst your lowest score (the one to be dropped) is 50 points. if you score more than 50 points that is what is added to your tally, if you score zero then 50 points is added. better to score more than 50 and gain that much than gain 50

[pete55]

If two drivers come to round nine on equal points and one drivers worst round is say 150 points and the other's worst is 0 points, doesn't it make a difference then.

[SRabbit]

it would make a difference but at the same time for a driver to have a 150 point advantage on another driver (ie same points at the end even though they have a zero in their score), then wouldn't you argue he'd had a better season anyway?

I've been scribbling numbers trying to put together a scenario where it would be an advantage to deliberatley score a zero and I can't find a way to make it happen - bottom line is there is no substitiute for points.

Just to illustrate your argument Pete55 - 9 rounds, same score at the end, 1 with a worst round score of 150, one with 0

150,150,150,150,150,150,150,150,150 = 1350 drop 150 = 1200
0,150,150,150,150,150,200,200,200, = 1350 drops 0 = 1350

I'd argue the guy with the 200's had a better year despite the zero and should be in front anyway.

What I am not convinced of though is when everyone says if you have a zero you can't have another bad round or you're gone.

Using the above example, lets add another round before we DYWR:
Driver 1 total so far 1350, scores another 150 = 1500, drops 150 = 1350
Driver 2 total so far 1350, scores 1 points = 1351, drops zero = 1351

The fact he scored well with the 200's allows this but it's an interesting outcome.....

[RotorFan]

Its amazing how often this is misconstrued. Theres only two circumstances where "drop your worst round" makes a DNF positive:
If you've won every single race of the year previous to Bathurst and on maximum points (impossible), or
The position you look to be finishing the race in is no higher than your worst points round for the year (but not really because everyone wants to finish Bathurst).

Its almost like that Monty Hall Problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem).

[Notso Swift]

The only way it could be better is if you took some one else out as well, and your 2nd worst round was beter than their 2nd worst. Pretty big gamble and really streching the grounds of probability.

[peckstar]

Finally i have found two reasons why having a DNF, could be an advantage, unfortunatly none releted to points, because there are not any advantages, as opposed to it not being a disadvantage

The two
1. as Notso said, to take out an opponant
2. if you DNF bathurst you can end up with 24 green tyres or close too it

Repeat there are no advantages in dropping a round to gain a zero points.
i defy anyone to get one

[pete55]

I may be just a little silly, but if you have two drivers at the end of the round at which points are deducted are on equal points and ones worst score is 150 and the others worst score is 0 then these two deduct the points then driver with 150 points as their worst score will be 150 points worse off. If the driver whose worst score is 0 is allowed to deduct those points then i can't see how it can be any different.

Take the current points scores adjusted - Driver A leading on 1,042 points then drops worst points score of 232 = 810 points. Driver B has 862 points then drops worst points score of 0 points = 862 points. How the hell can it be any calculated any different to this.

[peckstar]

thats different pete. you are talking after the fact

it is different to delibratly dropping around to gain an advantage, which is what your orginal point was

i repeat there is never any points advantage in DNFing a round. came up with an example, if you can, but you want be able to because there isnt any

[pete55]

I thought i just did come up with an example. Say that that is round 8 and Driver A sees that he is then leading driver B by say 120 points. Driver A sees he is going to have to drop 150 points and Driver B is still going to have to drop 0 then come round 9 ( this is end of worst points dropping round ) then wouldn't Driver A be watching Driver B closely in the first race especially if he is behind. It may well be worth DNFing that first race and considering not starting or not finishing the other races so that he is not disadvantaged.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by SRabbit

What I am not convinced of though is when everyone says if you have a zero you can't have another bad round or you're gone.

Using the above example, lets add another round before we DYWR:
Driver 1 total so far 1350, scores another 150 = 1500, drops 150 = 1350
Driver 2 total so far 1350, scores 1 points = 1351, drops zero = 1351

The fact he scored well with the 200's allows this but it's an interesting outcome.....

while tecnically you are correct Srabbit drivers can have two bad rounds and still win. as long as other drivers also have bad round(s) or the first driver out performs the other drivers in the other races.

the weakness in your example is you forget the other drivers the guy who won the last race and also in your eaxample you used quite a low positions as the normal (150 points to 200 in v8s thats like comparing 1st place to 9th place) Up those scores to 200 and 190 and i doubt you would get the same answer

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by pete55

I thought i just did come up with an example. Say that that is round 8 and Driver A sees that he is then leading driver B by say 120 points. Driver A sees he is going to have to drop 150 points and Driver B is still going to have to drop 0 then come round 9 ( this is end of worst points dropping round ) then wouldn't Driver A be watching Driver B closely in the first race especially if he is behind. It may well be worth DNFing that first race and considering not starting or not finishing the other races so that he is not disadvantaged.

but wouldnt he keep racing to see if he could get more than 150 points. if he could score 155 points in that race then he would end with an extra 5 points.

If it worked out he could not score 150, he could still score 140 or 130 or 5 but that would become the amount he now drops, it would make no difference, that would then be his lowest round (he could DNF but there is no advantage in doing that, but assuming the winner is set, there is no disadvantage either

But let me tell you what i do know Race 3 Phillip Island 2005 2nd place craig lowndes is given a drive throuh for a wheel nut rolling through pit lane, suddenly Marcos Ambrose with about 15 laps to go jumps from 3rd in the championship to second, you dont give up

or maybe with just a few laps to go at bathurst Glenn Seton pulls over from P1 and cries (its happened) but you (pete) would ahve DNF'd because your points tally wasnt good enough for first spot

[pete55]

Now Peckstar, you know as well as i do that it does not apply at Bathurst. This 'Drop your worst round' rubbish is finished by then.

[peckstar]

No its not, that is the last round of drop your worst round (which is another reason they wont drop it)

my understanding is that the rule is there to give the drivers a chance to really go for it if they have the opportunity

edit i went and looked this up (Naughty V8SA)

Rule D14.4.3 say "the lowest point score after round ten (which is indy) is to be dropped

but Schedule D2 say after round 9 which is bathurst

The realese at the start of the year said after bathurst so thats the one i believe, but it would be a resonable argument if you have a really bad indy

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by peckstar

No its not, that is the last round of drop your worst round (which is another reason they wont drop it)

my understanding is that the rule is there to give the drivers a chance to really go for it if they have the opportunity

edit i went and looked this up (Naughty V8SA)

Rule D14.4.3 say "the lowest point score after round ten (which is indy) is to be dropped

but Schedule D2 say after round 9 which is bathurst

The realese at the start of the year said after bathurst so thats the one i believe, but it would be a resonable argument if you have a really bad indy

They must have messed up and left the "round 10" in from last year when round 10 was bathurst.