Audi LMP1 Discussion

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Here is the video of that test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOFaGiCcHC0

Thanks.

[The Badger]

Its got like vanes on top of the fwd wheel arch . Its got what looks like a big round hole in front of the aft L/H wheel arch and the rear wheel arch continues to the rear wing element .

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Here is the video of that test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOFaGiCcHC0

Thanks! So fast and so quite.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its got like vanes on top of the fwd wheel arch . Its got what looks like a big round hole in front of the aft L/H wheel arch and the rear wheel arch continues to the rear wing element .

I think all of those things have been present for the last couple of WEC rounds.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Audi are apparently testing at Monza with their "hybrid" 2013-2014 car.

Who is the test driver? Di Grassi?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its got like vanes on top of the fwd wheel arch . Its got what looks like a big round hole in front of the aft L/H wheel arch and the rear wheel arch continues to the rear wing element .

Theres nothing new but the tires/wheels and a possiible naca duct on the left side behind the cockpit.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Who is the test driver? Di Grassi?

Likely Marco Bonanomi, he's been doing the majority (all?) of the testing with this 2014 mule.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by cmk

Likely Marco Bonanomi, he's been doing the majority (all?) of the testing with this 2014 mule.

It looks like it's indeed Bonanomi at the wheel. At least that what the green-black-white helmet suggests.

[CTD]

Compared to the test from Yas Marina circuit last year, where it was rumored to be testing the Air-Hybrid. It doesn't sound as loud, could this mean that the 2014 Audi Le Mans car won't feature the air hybrid?
- I know that they could be focusing their testing on specific areas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhpUNDE5aa4

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by cmk

Likely Marco Bonanomi, he's been doing the majority (all?) of the testing with this 2014 mule.

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

It looks like it's indeed Bonanomi at the wheel. At least that what the green-black-white helmet suggests.

Thanks!

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

I have just had access to interesting information issued by the Audi Media services which confirms the above interpretation of the rules regarding the harvesting of energy. A diagram of the "Circuit de la Sarthe" with the seven "braking zones" defined by the Endurance Committee clearly illustrates that energy is not only harvested at these seven "braking zones" but also at other braking points around the track, such as Arnage and Tertre Rouge for instance. As a matter of fact, harvesting of energy at LM takes places at ten different locations around the track according to Audi.

It's mentioned that energy can be harvested anywhere around the track provided that the braking lasts more than one second and that the deceleration exceeds 1g, which indeed reflects the relevant provision of Article 1.13 of the 2013 Technical Regulations.

More interestingly, the diagram also shows that release of energy in the sector between the Dunlop Chicane and the 1st "Forza" Chicane can be or is performed in three successive boosts (i) between the Dunlop Chicane and the Esses, (ii) between the Esses and Tertre Rouge, and (iii) after Tertre Rouge.

I just need to check if a copy of the relevant diagram can be posted without restriction.

Here is the diagram in question:

(source: Audi media, "2013 WEC" booklet, page 24)

NB: Thanks to Eva-Maria of Audi for confirming that this material can be shared.

The track sections indicated in yellow are the sections where harvesting of energy upon braking takes places. Ten such sections are present at LM, including the seven "braking zones" defined by the Endurance Committee (shown in red in the diagram) and further braking points at Arnage, the Esses and Tertre Rouge.

[TF110]

The rules stipulate "the amount of energy released between two braking zones is .5MJ". According to this diagram they release energy 9 times and harvest 10 times? The rules stipulate there are hybrid braking zones. On this diagram the RED dots are those "braking zones by ACO definition of an area for 500kj of boost" the direct translation. So, there are 7 zones for "boost" according to this and there are "7 recovery zones" according to Toyota. And each braking "zone" according to the rules (as stated before in this thread) has to be 1 second or more. Do the math. The braking of "over one second" to define a hybrid zone is obviously for harvesting. This diagram shows those in red. The green and yellow should be taken with a grain of salt. Especially keeping this statement from the diagram directly below "Maximiser les gains" in mind- "energy recovery from braking. The max recovery depends on complex rules of the game" direct translation.

Every zone in red is a braking period of over one second, thats enough to recover 500kj. Therefor this diagram is not indicating where they are allowed to harvest with all the yellow parts. If they are harvesting energy and releasing on all those indicated points in green and yellow, they are either skirting the rules or not harvesting 500kj in braking over 1 second and have to harvest in other areas. I find that hard to believe and this diagram being in actuality of what they're doing.

[vincegail]

The lengths of the green and yellow parts are not the same everywhere. So two small yellow ones count as one green in my eyes.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

The rules stipulate "the amount of energy released between two braking zones is .5MJ". According to this diagram they release energy 9 times and harvest 10 times? The rules stipulate there are hybrid braking zones. On this diagram the RED dots are those "braking zones by ACO definition of an area for 500kj of boost" the direct translation. So, there are 7 zones for "boost" according to this and there are "7 recovery zones" according to Toyota. And each braking "zone" according to the rules (as stated before in this thread) has to be 1 second or more. Do the math. The braking of "over one second" to define a hybrid zone is obviously for harvesting. This diagram shows those in red. The green and yellow should be taken with a grain of salt. Especially keeping this statement from the diagram directly below "Maximiser les gains" in mind- "energy recovery from braking. The max recovery depends on complex rules of the game" direct translation.

Every zone in red is a braking period of over one second, thats enough to recover 500kj. Therefor this diagram is not indicating where they are allowed to harvest with all the yellow parts. If they are harvesting energy and releasing on all those indicated points in green and yellow, they are either skirting the rules or not harvesting 500kj in braking over 1 second and have to harvest in other areas. I find that hard to believe and this diagram being in actuality of what they're doing.

Well, well, well.

I am happy to share the extract of page 25 of this booklet that relates to the above diagram. It's in French and the relevant portion thereof reads as follows (emphasis added):

L’énergie peut être récupérée au freinage Ã* n’importe quel endroit du circuit, Ã* condition que le freinage dure au moins une seconde et que la décélération est de plus de 1g. En prenant l’exemple du Mans, c’est le cas pour dix virages (marqué en jaune sur le graphique).

Dans la phase qui suit, dans laquelle l’énergie est restituée (marquage vert), des conditions particulières s’appliquent aux zones dites de freinage. Le règlement définit le nombre et l’emplacement de ces zones pour chaque circuit. Au Mans, il y avait sept zones de ce type l’année dernière. La quantité d’énergie restituée entre deux zones de freinage ne doit pas dépasser 0,5 mégajoule par boost. Sur un tour, l’énergie récupérée maximale convertie en propulsion a donc été de 3,5 mégajoules.

L’instance responsable du règlement a accès Ã* l’acquisition des données dans la voiture de course et peut contrôler ces paramètres en permanence. L’importance du boost dépend des stratégies de régulation électroniques déterminées par les applicateurs. Ces algorithmes doivent être définis et sont fixes. Le pilote peut choisir le boost via des paramètres préréglés.

Trust me on the fact that I am fluent in French and do therefore read and fully understand what is mentioned above. French is my mother tongue

In other words, as I have been "hammering" before (so to say...), the ACO-FIA merely define "braking zones" (the red "spots" in the diagram) that subdivide the track in a corresponding number of track "sectors" where the amount of released energy is limited in each case to 0.5 MJ. This subdivision is somewhat "artificial" and does not reflect the fact that there are other braking points around the track which involve a braking of more than one second and a deceleration exceeding 1g (which is evidently the case of Arnage, the Esses and Tertre Rouge) and where energy can be harvested. There is absolutely NOTHING in the rules that specifically mandates that harvesting of energy upon braking has to be carried out exclusively within or at the (seven, as far as LM is concerned) "braking zones" defined by the Endurance Committee.

This is pretty clear to me, fits totally within the rules, and therefore very believable.

[gwyllion]

I did not follow the lengthy discussion between MyNameIsNigel and TF110. However, I do not understand the confusion at all.

The rules are dead simple and only talk about released/used energy.

The amount of energy used between 2 braking must not exceed 0.5 MJ.
...
For each circuit, some braking zone will be defined by Endurance Committee before every event. The allowance and measurement of released energy will be considered for every lap between each of the defined entries of zones.

For Le Mans 7 points on the track have been defined; these are the entries of specific corners/chicanes and they are represented as big red dots on the Audi diagram. And the amount of released energy between these points is limited to 0.5 MJ.

The regulations don't talk about the recovery of energy at all!

In theory you could develop a gigantic energy recovery system that recovers and store 3.5 MJ in a single braking zone and subsequently releases its in 7 chuncks of 0.5 MJ around the track.

Of course in practice it makes more sense to design a ERS that can only store 0.5 MJ and to recover 0.5 MJ with braking before a braking zone and release it immediately afterwards. In case of Audi "immediately" means when the car gets over 120 km/h. This is the case with two chicanes and Mulsanne corner in the Audi diagram.

It is perfectly possible to delay the release of the energy a bit, like after the Porsche curves in the Audi diagram. Or to recover and release the 0.5 MJ in smaller chunks between two braking zone; this is the case in the Audi diagram between Dunlop chicane and the first chicane.

BTW I am not saying that the diagram corresponds exactly with what Audi is doing in practice. I am merely arguing that it satisfies the technical and sporting regulations.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by vincegail

The lengths of the green and yellow parts are not the same everywhere. So two small yellow ones count as one green in my eyes.

The (total) length of the green and yellow do not have to be the same. The MGUs can operate at a different power output between recovery and release.

For instance, you could recover 500 kJ in 2 seconds by running the MGU in generator mode at 250 kW and release 500 kJ in 5 seconds by running it in motor mode at 100 kW.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Thanks for your valuable and welcome input gwyllion. I have nothing to add on this particular subject. That's a promise !

[TF110]

Thats what I said the diagram could be showing.

...or not harvesting 500kj in braking over 1 second and have to harvest in other areas

But that kind of goes against what Audi said before about improving their recovery. They werent able to do 500kj in every braking zone. Then you have Toyota saying twice there are specified zones for recovery of energy. So it seems theres two sides. Maybe since Toyota can recover energy more fluently, they do it in a single instance. While Audi does it in spurts. Then the statement by Murata of "Audi releasing it in one sector" confuses even more.

[gwyllion]

No, there is only one side and that is the rule book

[TF110]

So Toyota made up the part where the FIA lays out zones for harvesting? Or are they confused to the ruling and should boost 10 times and harvest 11 around LeMans like a graph from Audi indicates?

[Japanese Samurai]

According to Japanese Autosport magazine,
AUDI R18 e-tron equips innovative radiators.
They do not have a radiating fin but consist of only tubes.
They reduce air drag.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

According to Japanese Autosport magazine,
AUDI R18 e-tron equips innovative radiators.
They do not have a radiating fin but consist of only tubes.
They reduce air drag.

I assume these are the same micro-tube radiators that Audi communicated about last May:


Now, I am looking forward to seeing the real impact of these micro-tube radiators on the design of the new car, as the "old" R18 was essentially designed around more conventional radiators.

And it's about time we hear about the new car which should have been track tested already, shouldn't it ?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Nico Müller is about to join Audi's LMP1 programme according to motorsport-magazin.com. The Swiss driver has apparently impressed and seems to be highly rated by Audi.

[chernaudi]

Wonder who he might replace, or if it's going to be in the third car for LM or select WEC rounds? Next on the retirement list would probably be Kristensen, which if this was '11 or '12, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to step aside. Thing is, in '13, Tom has done a ton better than in either of the previous seasons.

I don't think that anyone's going anywhere on the established squads unless they want to step aside.

[kober]

There was a rumour about Nico Muller joining Audi's DTM squad, which might not be possible to combine with a stint in the third R18, due to a clash between DTM's Hungaroring race and 24 Heures du Mans Test.