Stewards Reprimand both drivers.

[VIVA GT]

My take on the two different pit lane incidents are as follows:

1 - Jostling for position on the way into the pits
Exciting but foolhardy and if taken to extremes, could result in someone being barged off the circuit. The same thing could happen at any corner on the track (proper) and the situation should be judged and handled accordingly.
The only people who potentially could suffer as a result of this would be the two drivers involved.
(Totally off topic - That phrase has always led me to look for a slightly promiscuous lady known as Jocelyn Four Positions...)

2 - Wheel banging & driving side-by-side down the pitlane
Totally foolhardy and potentially very dangerous, also putting the safety of many people not just the drivers at risk.
This should never happen again and if it does, severe sanction should be taken against the people involved (and by that, I mean the drivers).

I also think that (as this can be adjudged to have been 'the first time for this) it was correct for nothing other than a ticking off after the race was appropriate regarding each 'offence' on this occasion, but that it should be made clear to the drivers at the next meeting what action will be taken should this happen again.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by cptkablamo

So how many reprimands can you get before you actually get a penalty - or can you break every rule in the book, as long as you don't break the (exact) same rule twice???

This is only my opinion based on my observation of the racing in China, but following Hamilton's repremand for weaving all the drivers in China showed restraint from the tactic. So I imagine that a repremand is followed at the next drivers briefing with a clarification of the rules and clear indication how the stewards will react and the punishments that will ensue. In other words, a repremand to a single driver becomes a yellow card to all the drivers. We shall see!

I agree that both Hamilton and Vettel each deserved a repremand for their contribution to the pit lane incident.

On the matter of Hamilton overtaking Vettel on the way into the pits I have watched the footage several times. Hamilton was clearly in front of Vettel, though Vettel was on the 'outside' of Hamilton from the moment they left the normal racing line to enter the pits. Hamilton of course had no way of knowing that the car following him was about to enter the pits on the same lap - only Vettel knew that. Vettel did not 'slip in' behind Hamilton to enter the pits but stayed along side him. I'm not saying Vettel was doing anything wrong, but if the pit lane entrance is a 'single lane' then maybe he should have slipped into single file behind Hamilton at that point as he was 'behind' Hamilton at that point. I guess as the Alonso/Massa situation provoked no response from the stewards this is a non-issure.

[Matt]

First everyone complains about no passing, then when there is, even though in an unorthodox way, people still complain!

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Matt

First everyone complains about no passing, then when there is, even though in an unorthodox way, people still complain!

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and don't really agree with it, tbh.
Why condone this sort of reckless behaviour in the pitlane, endangering the lives of not themselves, but many others that frequent that area?

Wouldn't want F1 to turn into Nascar, right?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

First everyone complains about no passing, then when there is, even though in an unorthodox way, people still complain!

I hink you are missing the point.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and don't really agree with it, tbh.
Why condone this sort of reckless behaviour in the pitlane, endangering the lives of not themselves, but many others that frequent that area?

Wouldn't want F1 to turn into Nascar, right?

They weren't in the pitlane. Last I knew, pitlane started when the limiter goes on. If they didn't want any passing there, they shouldn't have a kerb on the inside, and make it grass all the way up to the white line. Otherwise they're just encouraging it.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Matt

They weren't in the pitlane. Last I knew, pitlane started when the limiter goes on. If they didn't want any passing there, they shouldn't have a kerb on the inside, and make it grass all the way up to the white line. Otherwise they're just encouraging it.

Vettel and Hamilton drove side by side in the pitlane, on the limiters where other team personnel were working. This is one of the situations being discussed in this forum.

The other situation was 'off-track' overtaking when entering the pits, ahich as you say, is not in the pit lane.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Vettel and Hamilton drove side by side in the pitlane, on the limiters where other team personnel were working. This is one of the situations being discussed in this forum.

The other situation was 'off-track' overtaking when entering the pits, ahich as you say, is not in the pit lane.

Yeah, The Vettel/Hamilton incident was dangerous, but shouldn't have warranted a penalty, due to the fact it wasn't intentional. Could one of them have let of and let the other one by? Sure, but they're both racing drivers so I don't think they would have, haha. I know most of us would have probably done the same thing int he heat of a battle.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yeah, The Vettel/Hamilton incident was dangerous, but shouldn't have warranted a penalty, due to the fact it wasn't intentional. Could one of them have let of and let the other one by? Sure, but they're both racing drivers so I don't think they would have, haha. I know most of us would have probably done the same thing int he heat of a battle.

Of course it should have warranted a penalty because it was dangerous and as race car drivers they know full well the consequences of their actions.

[Matt]

I guess I see things differently then.

I come from a short track racing background, so that may explain some of my reasons, lol.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Matt

I guess I see things differently then.

I come from a short track racing background, so that may explain some of my reasons, lol.

Indeed. The fact remains they were given a reprimand because what they did was dangerous, though many including myself feel it was way too lenient.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Indeed. The fact remains they were given a reprimand because what they did was dangerous, though many including myself feel it was way too lenient.

I can agree that what they did was potentially dangerous, but in the event their actions caused no harm. But as said previously, I agree with the repremand. Had there been any more serious consequences to their actions then I would expect a tougher punishment.

[Splatz the Cow]

I don't know why bjohnsonsmith has suddenly become the barometer of what we can and cannot talk about, as most of his posts seem to centre on what HE is aware or not aware of; the forum does not have you at its centre. People can make statements for the general elightenment of some or all, or even just a statement, we are not here for you education alone.

I do not appreciate having the video link pulled, as Jeff Krosnoff's crash was deeply important to me and many others, and had a big affect on safety in American open-wheeler racing. The marshall, to be specific, was killed by the flying wheel, not the car itself.


@Matt,

as you probably know from US oval racing, the have been some massive shunts lately, like the Carl Edwards one. Although that one was intentional, some others aren't, like that Kenny Brack crash a few years back, where two indycars locked together. This unpredictable nature to open-wheeler crashes is part of what's being discussed here.

Which leads to the question of, should drivers in open-wheelers be more circumspect, due to this risk of locking wheels, and back away from side by side battles when there are people in unprotected areas close nearby?

The what if factor?

Secondly, if drivers can't manage the safety themselves, does it then need to be enforced?

My view is that if you don't enforce it strictly, drivers and teams will keep chipping away to find an advantage. As a result, one day when someone is caught short and an accident occurrs, people will say how did this happen? But its too late then.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I can agree that what they did was potentially dangerous, but in the event their actions caused no harm. But as said previously, I agree with the repremand. Had there been any more serious consequences to their actions then I would expect a tougher punishment.

True, their actions didn't cause any harm but if they had it would have been another story. Yes, the argument does contain ifs and would haves and there is the potential danger. However prevention is better than cure, so if there is a rule regarding racing down the pitlane why wasn't it enforced immediately, rather than both drivers give a remand after the race?

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

Which leads to the question of, should drivers in open-wheelers be more circumspect, due to this risk of locking wheels, and back away from side by side battles when there are people in unprotected areas close nearby?

I believe this difference has been a part of motorsport for many years, and not just when there are people close by either. It's the reason why I rarely bother to watch any kind of saloon/stock/touring car racing anymore, side by side battles between open wheel cars are the most exciting spectacle in sport, watching people who believe the secret of close racing is to bang the cars together is of no interest to me whatsoever.

Of course club level racing is (generally) different as most drivers have some respect for each other and can't afford the panel beating bills.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

I believe this difference has been a part of motorsport for many years, and not just when there are people close by either. It's the reason why I rarely bother to watch any kind of saloon/stock/touring car racing anymore, side by side battles between open wheel cars are the most exciting spectacle in sport, watching people who believe the secret of close racing is to bang the cars together is of no interest to me whatsoever.

Of course club level racing is (generally) different as most drivers have some respect for each other and can't afford the panel beating bills.

Well, over here we have these cars called "Modifieds." They're open-wheel racecars, yet they still beat and bang, haha.

[wnut]

My view is that if you don't enforce it strictly, drivers and teams will keep chipping away to find an advantage. As a result, one day when someone is caught short and an accident occurrs, people will say how did this happen? But its too late then.[/QUOTE]

This is the problem.
The rules need to be strictly enforced so that the drivers know that putting people at risk is unacceptable even when you get away with it in terms of injuries and/or deaths.

Everytime someone gets away with reckless endangerment we are one step nearer an injury or fatality and that is sickening!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Matt

Thanks for posting that Matt, it's an incredible looking thing!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Thanks for posting that Matt, it's an incredible looking thing!

That's one way of dealing with the aero debate.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Thanks for posting that Matt, it's an incredible looking thing!

IF you really wanna see the ultimate in Asphalt OVal racing cars, it's the Supermodified.

850hp, 1800lb,(815kg) active aero(down the straights the wings will flatten out, when you get to the corners they pop up)

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I can agree that what they did was potentially dangerous, but in the event their actions caused no harm. But as said previously, I agree with the repremand. Had there been any more serious consequences to their actions then I would expect a tougher punishment.

What's not been mentioned is the indirect harm. The two drivers are amongst the best in the world, but unfortuantely lesser drivers will try and copy them. Having marshalled incidents where club level open wheeled cars have touched on the track and taken off, I wouldn't want to see that in the pit lane.

Matt - I woudn't classify that Modified as Open wheeled, as it's got protection around the rear wheels - probably to prevent interlocking. Still looks good though.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Tal Aras

Matt - I woudn't classify that Modified as Open wheeled, as it's got protection around the rear wheels - probably to prevent interlocking. Still looks good though.

I was refraining from pointing that out in case someone thought I had a bee in my bonnet or was some kind of open wheel snob so Thanks Tal Aras for mentioning it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

I was refraining from pointing that out in case someone thought I had a bee in my bonnet or was some kind of open wheel snob so Thanks Tal Aras for mentioning it.

The Supermods don't though. :P

[pannenmann]

Originally Posted by Matt

IF you really wanna see the ultimate in Asphalt OVal racing cars, it's the Supermodified.

850hp, 1800lb,(815kg) active aero(down the straights the wings will flatten out, when you get to the corners they pop up)

Sorry for being OT, but whenver I see them, I wonder why the rear wings have this asymetrical design. Is it because they are run on an oval track?

[wnut]

Matt awesome cars.I would love to see them have a go at a road track.
Describing the iterlocking protection cages as not constituting open wheelers is being very picky!
Bet these guys know what racing is all about!