Teams to Refund Tickets?

[macdaddy]

From SpeedTV:

A report from French news agency AFP reveals that the FIA could order the seven Michelin-shod Formula 1 squads that boycotted last week's United States Grand Prix to pay a collective fine of circa $16 million, destined to refund the paying customers who attended the event at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

[Menelaos]

The FIA should seriously think about what their own responsibilities are. They are the only ones to blame for the fiasco.

[eatapc]

That would be nice. But as I posted in another thread, instead of a reimbursement Michelin should pay for a ticket to next year's Indy race for anyone with a ticket stub from Sunday. That would not only compensate the fans but also compensate the Speedway and insure fan support next year. It would also be a good PR move on Michelin's part; Michelin should offer to do it rather than be forced by the FIA. I can tell you right now that Michelin will lose a lot more than $16 million in tire sales unless they salvage this PR disaster.

[Menelaos]

a) I don't think your solution is very good, cause if someone flew in from Greece (where I live) to see this GP he needed to pay $2,000-$3,000. I don't think he'd like to pay those again next year.
b) I don't think Michelin will lose so much money because of this.

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

a) I don't think your solution is very good, cause if someone flew in from Greece (where I live) to see this GP he needed to pay $2,000-$3,000. I don't think he'd like to pay those again next year.
b) I don't think Michelin will lose so much money because of this.

I agree. Even for someone like me who would be driving from only about 600 miles away, the cost of food, hotel, gas, missed time from work, etc would be far more than the cost of the tickets. Actually, the USGP tickets are among the most reasonable in F1.

[alesi95]

GPWC Sounds pretty good right now doesnt it.

[eatapc]

I understand that a new ticket will not compensate people for their out-of-pocket costs, but it would be impractical to do that. At least a new ticket would be a nice goodwill gesture that might encourage fans to come again next year. In other words, it's better than a simple reimbursement.

No matter what you think of the FIA, it was Michelin who ruined the weekend for the fans due to their failure to provide tires suitable for racing and for refusing to race in spite of their obligation. Let's give Michelin the benefit of the doubt and assume they pulled out purely for safety reasons: It was still the Michelin tire screw up that caused the show to not go on. So they did the right thing in pulling out, and now they should do the further right thing by compensating (a little) the fans who were cheated out of a proper race.

[Menelaos]

First of all, I think Michelin destroyed their teams and the FIA destroyed the GP. But anyway, that's being discussed elsewhere. So, I think they would have to give them free tickets to at least two gps to make up for the money they wasted.

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

From SpeedTV:

A report from French news agency AFP reveals that the FIA could order the seven Michelin-shod Formula 1 squads that boycotted last week's United States Grand Prix to pay a collective fine of circa $16 million, destined to refund the paying customers who attended the event at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

I wondered this morning whether the FIA is punishing the teams because the FIA believes/knows that the supply contracts each team has with Michelin include clauses that require Michelin to compensate the team.

The trouble is that Michelin might not be making any warranties under the contracts to their teams about the safety, durability and fitness for purpose of the tyres because the tyres are cutting edge technology, etc.

[thejester]

First of all, saying they boycotted the race is inaccurate. They lined up on the grid and retired their cars for safety reasons. Solutions were proposed on both sides and no compromise was reached. The teams made a decision that is within the rules, so how can they be punished for it?

IMO the FIA attacking the teams is a mean spirited, politically motivated power play. If they want to pursue Michelin directly, fair enough, good luck to them. But what regulation can the FIA bring to bear on the teams?

"They didn't do what we suggested because they disagreed with us"

Can't see that holding up...

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by thejester

First of all, saying they boycotted the race is inaccurate. They lined up on the grid and retired their cars for safety reasons. Solutions were proposed on both sides and no compromise was reached. The teams made a decision that is within the rules, so how can they be punished for it?

IMO the FIA attacking the teams is a mean spirited, politically motivated power play. If they want to pursue Michelin directly, fair enough, good luck to them. But what regulation can the FIA bring to bear on the teams?

"They didn't do what we suggested because they disagreed with us"

Can't see that holding up...

Article 151C of the International Sporting Code is the Article under which the FIA is proceeding against the teams.

IMO, the FIA should also deal with Michelin under the Technical Regulations; it would surprise me if the Technical Regulations do not specify tyre details.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by thejester

First of all, saying they boycotted the race is inaccurate. They lined up on the grid and retired their cars for safety reasons. Solutions were proposed on both sides and no compromise was reached. The teams made a decision that is within the rules, so how can they be punished for it?

IMO the FIA attacking the teams is a mean spirited, politically motivated power play. If they want to pursue Michelin directly, fair enough, good luck to them. But what regulation can the FIA bring to bear on the teams?

"They didn't do what we suggested because they disagreed with us"

Can't see that holding up...

Jester my dear chap I could not have said this any better myself.. This is a Michelin/FIA situation they have to solve there diferences. Nothing to do with the teams that includes Ferrari..

[thejester]

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

Article 151C of the International Sporting Code is the Article under which the FIA is proceeding against the teams.

IMO, the FIA should also deal with Michelin under the Technical Regulations; it would surprise me if the Technical Regulations do not specify tyre details.

And this one it seems...

• failed to notify the stewards of their intention not to race, in breach of Article 131 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Article 131 states: "The starting grid will be published four hours before the race. Any competitor whose car(s) is (are) unable to start for any reason whatsoever (or who has good reason to believe that their car(s) will not be ready to start) must inform the stewards accordingly at the earliest opportunity and, in any event, no later than 45 minutes before the start of the race.”

Hmmm... seems dodgy to me. What did they expect the teams to do? Had they not been in almost constant communication all weekend that their cars were unsafe to race on advice from their supplier?

Oh, but who cares? It's not the bloody point Max!!
(btw, cheers Jeremy )

[JeremySmith]

The teams are not the race promoter so they are not responsable to refund anything in my book. You are welcome Jester

[mabs_nsx]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

The FIA should seriously think about what their own responsibilities are. They are the only ones to blame for the fiasco.

agree

[LongJohnSilver]

You cant really expect the FIA to go after Michelin. The teams contract with Michelin as a supplier of tires for their cars, but ultimatly it is there responsibility to have suitable tires on their cars. The tire companies really are only suppliers. If several teams used the same supplier for any other part, do you think the FIA would go after them? No, because it is the teams responsibility to ensure that they get proper equipment from their contracted suppliers, not the FIA's.

[macdaddy]

From SpeedTV:

While calls continue for official refunds for ticket buyers at last weekend’s USGP in Indianapolis, one prominent motorsports tour agency is not waiting. Grand Prix Tours Inc., the California-based company that operates tours to Formula 1 events around the world as well as other American racing events, announced that it will be crediting the cost of grandstand tickets for GPT customers who attended the USGP.

“We want all of our guests to have a positive experience over the race weekend..."

“We feel our tour customers have been let down, therefore we will credit guests the full cost of their USGP grandstand tickets towards any future F1 tour we offer," Simpson added.

[Kirk]

The solution could be to offer those fans a ticket to any F1 race (2005 or 2006). The fans choice. That would do wonders to fan the flames.

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by LongJohnSilver

You cant really expect the FIA to go after Michelin. The teams contract with Michelin as a supplier of tires for their cars, but ultimatly it is there responsibility to have suitable tires on their cars. The tire companies really are only suppliers. If several teams used the same supplier for any other part, do you think the FIA would go after them? No, because it is the teams responsibility to ensure that they get proper equipment from their contracted suppliers, not the FIA's.

Almost precisely what Max Mosley has been quoted as saying - the FIA has no contractual relationship with Michelin, and the FIA cannot punish Michelin directly under the Regulations. I suspect that a partial motivation for the teams being charged under the Regulations is that the FIA assumes the teams will in turn make claims against Michelin under their various supply agreements.