Simona's fire & the pathetic attempt to put it out.. - Page 2

ujoint · 6 Jun 2010, 16:27 (Ref:2705552)

absolutely appalling. that rescue team should never be allowed on a racecourse again. that could have easily been a real tragedy.

foreversideways · 6 Jun 2010, 17:28 (Ref:2705585)

It reminded me of the bad old days of motor racing and she was lucky that it wasn't a fuel fire as with that bunch trying to put it out she would have stood no chance. Wouldn't give you much confidence if you were competing in the series and it proves yet again just how good are British marshals are.

JamesRamone · 6 Jun 2010, 17:56 (Ref:2705598)

when the safety vehicle first pulled up the crew didn't seem to be in any hurry to get out of the car and get the situation sorted.

JagtechOhio · 6 Jun 2010, 21:07 (Ref:2705718)

Sorry about the picture failure...if you look at a photo of any IndyCar, there is a red ring with an "E" symbol on the left side roll bar cowling, just aft of the headrest. That's master kill switch for ignition and activation for on-board fire supression.

Seems to me the first guy out of the truck should be laying powder or foam, the second guy to the car pulls the ring and works on pulling the driver.

I totally agree with Whosyer, the long, slow slide of the burning car should have enabled the safety truck to intercept it on the apron. Extinguishers in hand. It was 20 seconds after impact, easy.

No training, but as a mechanic I have put out three car fires before. You stop the fire first, before it has an opportunity to spread. Beyond blowing the onboard system, extracting the driver is secondary to preventing the flames from getting out of control and making the rescue impossible.

Isn't that more logical? If mountainstar's point about the driver being unable to move was the case, the entire procedure that was followed is a$$ backwards.

I hope this whole episode becomes a training film for safety crews the world over. We have all seen videos of how it is done correctly (Gerhard Berger crash '89 is another good example). Now everyone knows how to do it wrong.

JagtechOhio · 6 Jun 2010, 22:04 (Ref:2705746)

HVM speaks out:

http://www.racer.com/hvm-criticizes-...rticle/171800/

fieldodreams79 · 6 Jun 2010, 22:09 (Ref:2705749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

HVM speaks out:

http://www.racer.com/hvm-criticizes-...rticle/171800/

"ashamed"
"circus"
"speechless"

they (and Simona) were a helluva lot nicer than i would have been.

Flyin Ryan · 6 Jun 2010, 23:42 (Ref:2705792)

Right in half on the safety crew's delay.

The other half thinks "isn't a driver supposed to get themselves out of a car in 4 seconds?" My dad commented he didn't think she took her steering wheel off and that was why she was stuck in the car for so long. Looking at the replay I never saw it come out. Simona's like stuck in the car for 20 seconds and she could walk fine after so it wasn't like she had a leg injury preventing her from getting out. Safety crew was incompetent there but so was de Silvestro.

JagtechOhio · 7 Jun 2010, 00:05 (Ref:2705796)

Ryan, you should write that as a cover letter and mail your resume to the the IRL. Or whatever it is supposed to be called.

Maybe ACS works.

Flyin Ryan · 7 Jun 2010, 00:39 (Ref:2705802)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Ryan, you should write that as a cover letter and mail your resume to the the IRL. Or whatever it is supposed to be called.

Maybe ACS works.

Nah. I'd get fired within a week for being too honest with the league, teams, and drivers.

JagtechOhio · 7 Jun 2010, 01:19 (Ref:2705809)

No, I think blaming a driver for not quickly getting out of a burning race car is right up the company line.

Canada ALMS fan · 7 Jun 2010, 02:09 (Ref:2705818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

No, I think blaming a driver for not quickly getting out of a burning race car is right up the company line.

x 2. What if she had been unconscious?

Flyin Ryan · 7 Jun 2010, 02:11 (Ref:2705820)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

No, I think blaming a driver for not quickly getting out of a burning race car is right up the company line.

What company line? I said they did a bad job. There's a damn good reason though why a driver has to get out of their car in 4-6 seconds, we saw why last night, and I've seen other drivers in bad situations more constricted than de Silvestro was move a whole lot quicker. She could've panicked which is a normal reaction, but panicking in a racecar can easily lead to death or serious injury, just as panicking when you're the safety crew can easily lead to a driver's death or serious injury.

But thank you so much for being an a-hole with your post. It touches me deep down in my heart.

edit: de Silvestro's steering wheel was out of the car looking at it tonight. My mistake there.

fieldodreams79 · 7 Jun 2010, 02:49 (Ref:2705826)

i see Ryan's point...i've seen drivers move much quicker from burning of cars. but why couldn't she get out? did she panic or was the head restraint stuck, perhaps, melted in place?

it makes no difference if she was unconscious or not. they extinguished the fire just after she got out, and the fire related injuries would have been just as severe, IMO.

but it is not up to the driver alone to get out. where the drivers fail, the safety crew MUST step in quickly, efficiently and without hesitation.

Tenoch · 7 Jun 2010, 15:14 (Ref:2706148)

It looked like she and the safety crew panicked after their first attempts did not suceed.

JHamilton · 7 Jun 2010, 16:38 (Ref:2706184)

Just able to get in to post this, but I'm glad I was not the only one who feels this way... I was completely infuriated after watching this incident. Completely unacceptable. These guys should spend some time with the NHRA Safety Safari.

PVDA · 7 Jun 2010, 22:17 (Ref:2706403)

So why didn't the driver activate the on board fire bottle, I'm also pretty sure you can see her remove the steering wheel as soon as the car stops.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 7 Jun 2010, 23:59 (Ref:2706435)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

i see Ryan's point...i've seen drivers move much quicker from burning of cars. but why couldn't she get out? did she panic or was the head restraint stuck, perhaps, melted in place?

it makes no difference if she was unconscious or not. they extinguished the fire just after she got out, and the fire related injuries would have been just as severe, IMO.

but it is not up to the driver alone to get out. where the drivers fail, the safety crew MUST step in quickly, efficiently and without hesitation.

Not wanting to over egg the pudding the marshals did a rubbish job.

Having watched it again, she removed the sterring wheel ok but after that, she remained in the car but she is moving. I think her belt may have got stuck because the marshall, who goes to the car, is fiddling inside the cockpit and is clearly having trouble and beckons one his colleagues over. Then they actually have trouble pulling her out, like she's stuck.

Isn't there a switch/button that the driver can operate that sets of the fire-extinguisher?

JagtechOhio · 8 Jun 2010, 00:49 (Ref:2706442)

I went to the site of a rather long-running blogger, who placed part of the blame on Simona for her slow exit. Included in his rambling was the accusation that she was frought with panic.

This blogger has demonstrated total ignorance in the past, and what is particularly disconcerting is that he is one of the "journalists' with whom Randy Bernard has shared dinner and their collective wisdom about the state of IndyCar.

So here's part of my response to him. I won't apologize for the tone of my remarks, as they were directed to a pseudo-expert and not the readers here:

And that’s not the first step for the first man on site? To cut off potential electrical ignition sources? Was the engine still running, continuing to enable fuel delivery? No matter what was burning, you cut the power.

Show me where somebody reaches for the switch. Show me where the on-board extinguisher goes off.

Simona pulls the steering wheel as soon as the car comes to a stop. Panic my a$$. Then she is struggling in front of her. Problem seeing her harness release through a tinted visor in a smoking car? Prolly not. Glad you didn’t blame her for not lifting her visor, too.

Did you happen to notice that the right front suspension was crushed up against the tub? Ever hear of a driver getting their feet or legs caught up when front suspension components penetrate the footbox area? Maybe the steering rack smashed down so a driver can’t free their lower body easily?

Sure looks like that’s the struggle, down in front. About 30 seconds of the driver, then with assistance, trying to clear an obstruction that is preventing her from lifting herself out of the seat.

That’s not a harness quick-release problem, or a headrest problem. It’s a crashed racecar allowed to burn too long. The first assumption on site should be that the driver might be pinned, or otherwise incapacitated. Thank goodness she was able to help herself get out.

Think about Mike in the same pickle.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 8 Jun 2010, 01:00 (Ref:2706446)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Did you happen to notice that the right front suspension was crushed up against the tub? Ever hear of a driver getting their feet or legs caught up when front suspension components penetrate the footbox area? Maybe the steering rack smashed down so a driver can’t free their lower body easily?

Sure looks like that’s the struggle, down in front. About 30 seconds of the driver, then with assistance, trying to clear an obstruction that is preventing her from lifting herself out of the seat.

That’s not a harness quick-release problem, or a headrest problem. It’s a crashed racecar allowed to burn too long. The first assumption on site should be that the driver might be pinned, or otherwise incapacitated. Thank goodness she was able to help herself get out.

That would make sense as she clearly struggled to try and get out herself and the track marshall who did ventually pull her out had to try a few times and as she walked away it looks like she reaches down to her right leg.

cptkablamo · 8 Jun 2010, 07:00 (Ref:2706501)

Could it have been the case that the extinguisher was damaged in the impact or the fuel for the fire simply was too strong for the extinguisher to work as desired? It appears that the headrest could have been an issue in this case.

After this incident and the one involving the Lambo at Brno, there must be a review of how to deal with accidents with significant fire

fieldodreams79 · 8 Jun 2010, 11:50 (Ref:2706647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Not wanting to over egg the pudding the marshals did a rubbish job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

but it is not up to the driver alone to get out. where the drivers fail, the safety crew MUST step in quickly, efficiently and without hesitation.

i wouldn't describe their response with any of the words in BOLD.

racerkeke · 8 Jun 2010, 13:52 (Ref:2706711)

Let's be clear here -- Indycar does not have "marshals" at oval tracks. This was their (ahem) professional safety team. The six paid observers Indycar uses are not able to access the course. Only the safety team can do that. Observers are strictly "eyes on the ground" communicators.
keke

Whosyermon · 8 Jun 2010, 15:01 (Ref:2706747)

I understand Simona's praise of the safety crew... they made mistakes, they had equipment failures, they took too long and looked like they had never done this before, but in spite of all of that they saved her life.

Something that will stick with Simona for some time... I imagine.

EGG · 8 Jun 2010, 15:08 (Ref:2706752)

Quote:

I understand Simona's praise of the safety crew... they made mistakes, they had equipment failures, they took too long and looked like they had never done this before, but in spite of all of that they saved her life.

Something that will stick with Simona for some time... I imagine.

I don't know about that, she might just be very professional in how she handles the media. Certainly the way they yanked her out of the car and then marched her over to the wall wasn't inspiring. I crashed my motorbike earlier this year and put a 4cm hole in my leg, if someone had started dragging me around by the arm after that I would have decked them (Paul Tracy would have also!).

Whosyermon · 8 Jun 2010, 15:16 (Ref:2706759)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EGG

I don't know about that, she might just be very professional in how she handles the media. Certainly the way they yanked her out of the car and then marched her over to the wall wasn't inspiring. I crashed my motorbike earlier this year and put a 4cm hole in my leg, if someone had started dragging me around by the arm after that I would have decked them (Paul Tracy would have also!).

You have to put yourself in the moment... at the moment Simona was wanting them to yank on her as hard as they could to get her through that horse collar and drag her as fast as they could to a safe distance from her car that was on FIRE.

I'm not defending their mistakes just pointing out the end result is one that everyone can live with.

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