[Driver] Webber needs the ban hamster part 2

[Wrex]

Originally Posted by ensign14

There is a strong presumption that if a chap behind hits a man in front, it's the chap behind's fault.

Normally I would just call you an idiot, but that's against the forum rules.

Lewis, Mark, Whitmarsh and the stewards have all had a say, and ALL decided it was a racing incident. Lewis was slightly ahead, but on the outside of the corner with a championship rival up the inside. Webber was in his blind spot and he couldn't see him. He did know he was there though, otherwise he would have hugged the Apex and not left that gap there.

Webber was committed to the corner, and could do nothing to pull up any quicker and pull out before Lewis turned in.

Both drivers contributed to the crash, neither was 100% to blame. It was the very definition of a racing incident.

I've been here along time now. I guess I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining of no overtaking on one hand, then ****ing and moaning when the stewards don't give a penalty when cars get too close to each other.

[peckstar]

isnt it also true that for two races in a row, Hamilton has been involved in stupid accidents that he could have avoided and he has been a DNF as a result.

I wonder who his feeling the pressure the most

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by peckstar

isnt it also true that for two races in a row, Hamilton has been involved in stupid accidents that he could have avoided and he has been a DNF as a result.

I wonder who his feeling the pressure the most

I call it bad luck. Lewis always goes for the gap, often it comes off, occasionally it doesn't. Monza in particular he was very unfortunate to get a DNF, I don't often see contact like that terminally breaking the car.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Wrex

I've been here a long time now. I guess I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining of no overtaking on one hand, then ****ing and moaning when the stewards don't give a penalty when cars get too close to each other.

I'll second that if I may.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peckstar

isnt it also true that for two races in a row, Hamilton has been involved in stupid accidents that he could have avoided and he has been a DNF as a result.

I wonder who his feeling the pressure the most

He did admit he screwed up at Monza.

[deeks6]

Let it go ... we all know he cant race, cant pass and runs into everybody ...

DRIVER STANDINGS
01 Mark Webber 202
02 Fernando Alonso 191
03 Lewis Hamilton 182
04 Sebastian Vettel 181
05 Jenson Button 177
06 Felipe Massa 128
07 Nico Rosberg 122
08 Robert Kubica 114
09 Adrian Sutil 47
10 Michael Schumacher 46

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He did admit he screwed up at Monza.

which is good off him, and then race he admitted he had no idea where webber was, which as good as saying i stuffed up,

Pressure is on.

Awesome isnt it, thats what makes the end of the season great

[jason7253]

Don,t forget that big one when he took out Johnny Blake when he took him out in the Upper Yarrawonga under 7 kart classic in the 80,s either.lol

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peckstar

which is good off him, and then race he admitted he had no idea where webber was, which as good as saying i stuffed up,

Pressure is on.

Awesome isnt it, thats what makes the end of the season great

He said, when he BBC finally caught up with him, there was a blind spot.

[Hazza]

Originally Posted by strider

Danny Sullivan was the guest steward today.

Rubbin' is racin'.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by strider

Danny Sullivan was the guest steward today.

Interestingly I think you will find that Tim Schenken was Clerk of Course.

[Splatz the Cow]

What I got from the incident was that Webber gave Hamilton loads of room as Hamilton was coming from behind, and then alongside him, whereas Hamilton did not give Webber room at the corner.

For those saying that Hamilton was ahead, we can equally say that Webber was ahead as he went to pass the backmarker, and had every right to block Hamilton from coming through or put way off line.

But using his brain, Webber thought about championship points, not wanting to be penalised, and gave Hamilton plenty of space to get alongside. He also assumed Hamilton was there and gave hime the space to challenge.

He maintained his on line and didn't deviate, and also didn't concede the pass because Hamilton hadn't actually completed it yet. Webber had a legitimate claim to the inside of the corner, and I was worried he would understeer but he kept it as tight as possible.

Hamilton took the advantage of the space given to him by Webber before the corner, but once they arrived he pinched of the apex. He did not assume that Webber may still be there. He did not think about the championship. He did not give a car width of space for Webber to get around there slowly, but safely, where Hamilton would most likely have had a better position afterward.

Like so many young drivers at the moment, like Vettel, once they are half in front, they like to shut the door on the other guy. When we see Vettels mastery of the art of running over someone's front wing.

Kubica later showed how to go around the outside and make a clean pass, even though there was minor contact due to the understeer of the guy behind. Even though Kubica might have had a performance advantage over his opponent, in contrast to Hamilton, the fact is that it is more of a danger overtaking guys that have poor cars because you never know how much they can drive side by side with you.

Whereas, with topline cars, and experienced and respectful drivers like Webber, (Coulthard, Barrichello etc,) you know you can have a fair old tussle and he can control the car.

[david5]

Originally Posted by strider

Danny Sullivan was the guest steward today.

Sorry your right, AJ is in Korea. MW will be right to run into both McLarens then.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Normally I would just call you an idiot, but that's against the forum rules.

Lewis, Mark, Whitmarsh and the stewards have all had a say, and ALL decided it was a racing incident. Lewis was slightly ahead, but on the outside of the corner with a championship rival up the inside. Webber was in his blind spot and he couldn't see him. He did know he was there though, otherwise he would have hugged the Apex and not left that gap there.

Webber was committed to the corner, and could do nothing to pull up any quicker and pull out before Lewis turned in.

Both drivers contributed to the crash, neither was 100% to blame. It was the very definition of a racing incident.

I've been here along time now. I guess I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining of no overtaking on one hand, then ****ing and moaning when the stewards don't give a penalty when cars get too close to each other.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Sebastian Vettel is a disgrace for not cannonballing into the side of Alonso to benefit Webber.

Further proof that there are no team orders at Red Bull

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Both drivers contributed to the crash, neither was 100% to blame. It was the very definition of a racing incident.

I've been here along time now. I guess I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining of no overtaking on one hand, then ****ing and moaning when the stewards don't give a penalty when cars get too close to each other.

The actual poblem is that the rear car' saerodynamics do not work and basically the only way to pass someone is to bounce off him in a banzai move. If the cars were able to race in close company then we may actually see genuine overtaking rather than an out of control slide down the inside of the leader that results in one or the other or both out of the race. Most unrewarding!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by mac

I would also like to bring to your attention a passing move that Webber attempted on Fisichella in a Williams at the last corner in Sepang one year. Webber drove around the outside of the corner, Fisichella lost it and crashed into Mark, and Mark got panned for not being smart enough to know that Fisichella was on old tyres and for putting his car in danger and thereby "causing" an accident.

He was wrong there because as you say Fissi was obviously struggling on old tyres.

Originally Posted by mac

In Singapore he defended his line fairly - he never squeezed the overtaking driver, he picked his line and stuck to it, and actually tried to get out of the way - Hamilton turned in assuming that he would not be there (which he has admitted), and somehow Webber is to blame...!?!?

Neither driver was to blame here, pure racing incident. Can't compare it to Lewis at Monza because there Lewis was trying to put it up the inside of Massa. Here it was the other way around. Mark was correct to hold his line and drive the corner, had he braked he'd have t boned the Macaroon. Instead it was hard contact that caused the damage while ther were both turning in.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Normally I would just call you an idiot, but that's against the forum rules.

Oh look, an Australian. Biased much?

Originally Posted by Wrex

I've been here along time now. I guess I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining of no overtaking on one hand, then ****ing and moaning when the stewards don't give a penalty when cars get too close to each other.

We won't HAVE overtaking if the driver being overtaken is allowed to punt off the overtaker without penalty. We have had four drivers' championships decided thanks to a deliberate - or at least reckless - taking-out. Funny, one of those was from an Australian as well.

Originally Posted by deeks6

Webber, for starters, at China restart ... no penalty (as usual) for Golden Boy. Tried to get Massa at Monza and stuffed himself ...

So, that's a grand total of zero. Although you blame Hamilton for Monza, which I do, which Webber said was the same as Singapore. So evidently you blame Webber for Singapore as well.

Originally Posted by mac

Please list them...

This year I can think of:
- Melbourne: lost front downforce by getting too close to Lewis and understeered into him. Took full responsibility.
- Turkey: Team mate drove into him.
- Singapore: Racing incident while fairly defending his position.

This talk about Webber being incident prone and crashing into everyone is complete and utter garbage...

Two severe Schumichops against Barrichello at Nurburgring and Abu Dhabi last year. One of which he got penalized for. Penalized for brake-testing Heidfeld at Spa last year. Schumichop on Raikkonen at Interlagos, destroying Raikkonen's front wing. Punted Kubica off at Monza last year. Punting Hamilton at Melbourne this year.

Now add up all those from other drivers in the championship hunt.

[E.B]

I believe it was a racing incident, although I do believe as is usual for Mark he does not understand the word give way even when beaten to a corner fair and square as he was.

As has been said Webber has a huge history of contacting / running people off the track when they are passing him.... yet he rarely gets pinged for it, such as at Interlagos v Raikkonen, when he admitted Kimi was faster and going to pass him so I had to do something (anything?) to stop him.

Webber was as seems to be usual, spared his result in the Singapore incident by nothing other than luck, as the Bridgestone engineers said after the race on inspection of the tyre, which had been pushed almost off the rim in the incident before settling back into place.

Yet when Mark is faster behind another car (Valencia), he expects them all to melt away. Of course in Valencia it was clearly Marks error and misjudgement in expectin someone racing for position to get out of his way without any defending. Mark, even when he was in a middle team and in a lowly position was never one to make it easy for anyone such as a race leader overtaking him after say a fuel stop.

My summary.... a racing incident in which (once more) Webber was extrememely lucky to have got away without damage or loss of position, indeed again he made up a position.

Webber was very lucky overall to come out of it unscathed. Even more lucky that it has indeed enhanced his WDC position.... more by luck than ability or judgement..

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by E.B

Webber was as seems to be usual, spared his result in the Singapore incident by nothing other than luck,

Champions luck

[browney]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Oh look, an Australian. Biased much?

Can we please get this sort of cr*p off this forum.

There is plenty of bias going around without getting racist about it.

I noticed the Webber Vs. Sebastian thread disappeared as Webber started to push ahead in points to Seb.

[Knowlesy]

It didn't though.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Personally I thought it was a racing incident. Not everything can be 'someone's fault'. Sometimes both were in the right and getting on with their thing, and something happens. One gets away with it, the other doesn't. Tough do-do, as the old saying goes....

Selby

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by browney

Can we please get this sort of cr*p off this forum.

There is plenty of bias going around without getting racist about it.

I noticed the Webber Vs. Sebastian thread disappeared as Webber started to push ahead in points to Seb.

Be careful when posting in response to ensign14, or you could find your post quoted and changed, therefore altering and misrepresenting what you said.

[Ralf's Girl]

Okay, enough. I think we've all established which side of the fence certain posters in this thread are on, and we now have several pages of an argument going round in circles.

Thread closed.