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Old 26 Oct 2016, 08:40 (Ref:3682920)   #76
Ralle
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FIA. TCN2 rules allows RWD cars!

The Mercedes CLA 45 are a car you can drive and build with FIA art. 263. TCN2 regulations.

For example you can race in ETCC together with other TCR cars.MLA 45 AMG

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mercedes-benz/vehicles/passenger-cars/cla-class/the-new-cla-45-amg-racing-series-2/
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Old 26 Oct 2016, 08:48 (Ref:3682923)   #77
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KIA ceed TCR.

KIA Ceed TCR customer racing programme

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/04/28/kia-announces-its-tcr-customer-racing-programme/


The engine for the KIA Ceed TCR are a 2.0 liter turbo engine from KIA opima GT 2016 car https://youtu.be/y0QqVgev6bA</SPAN>
STARD (Stohl Advanced Research And Development) are building the car http://stard.at/
KIA TCR testing video; https://youtu.be/ZYcMgYHmaPk
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Old 26 Oct 2016, 09:53 (Ref:3682934)   #78
Quintin03
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Ralle, again, how do you know that the CLA 45 AMG is TCN2 certified? It's not mentioned anywhere on the page you link to. If you can't show how you know what you write, you're just talking ****, but I think that was clear a while ago.
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Old 26 Oct 2016, 10:28 (Ref:3682943)   #79
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TCN2 is the FIA's technical categorization of a car which includes/equates to TCR.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2015/...mpete-in-wtcc/

So see them as one and the same.
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Old 27 Oct 2016, 13:46 (Ref:3683379)   #80
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???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quintin03 View Post
Ralle, I don't know how you can be so confident of TCN2 regulations and what they do and do not permit as I cannot find the TCN2 technical regulations published anywhere. Also, how do you have personal knowledge of the contents of the franchise agreement?

I can however find the TCR technical regulations which specify what cars are eligible:

Emphasis mine.

As you can see, any car differing from the eligibility criteria may nevertheless be allowed at the discretion of WSC, one example of this being the Peugeot 308 Racing Cup TCR, which with an engine displacement of 1598cm³ does not fit the above criteria. Arguably the criteria do not even specify that rear-wheel drive cars are not allowed, just that only front-wheel-driver cars are on the list of eligible cars. Nothing is holding back BMW from building a TCR car, besides the discretion of WSC, and it seems inconceivable that WSC would not certify a suitably balanced 125i because it would

Finally, while the TCR regulations require certified cars to be available for purchase to third parties, thus prohibiting manufacturers from limiting the supply of cars to only the teams of their choosing, I could not find any regulation specifically prohibiting manufacturer-associated teams from competing. Indeed in ADAC TCR Germany a Honda-backed team has already competed in every round and has managed to take 2nd in the teams championship and 3rd and 11th in the drivers championship, far from not being allowed. Cyan racing is of course independent from Volvo though associating voluntarily and should have no trouble competing in any TCR series. Also, Volvo should be able to convert its S60 into a TCR car according to the exact criteria specified above.

In other words, you're wrong.
World Sporting Consulting (WSC) franchise agreement with the race organizers are secret stuff. WSC use Swiss lag, noting is public due to business and companies in Schweich. WSC are a private company, that make it´s owns rules. The basic with WSC are their Codes. One Code for organizers, one Code for tuner and car manufacturer, one Code for the drivers and teams how drive in TCR series.
FIA and the national ASN use the FIA model www.fia.com
FIA NORTH EUROPEAN ZONE http://www.fia-nez.eu/ this is FIA´s solution to zon championship.
The FIA North European Zone consists of ten member countries:
Belarus
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Iceland
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Russia
Sweden

A FIA NEZ CHAMPIONSHIP mean´s that you must use FIA racing rules like TCN2!
One example, there are a lot of things that are different between FIA and WSC.
For Homologation/Certification off the cars and models FIA have their model and WSC have their model.
FIA model: Homologation/cerftification of a series-produced car will become null and void 7 years after the date on which the series-production of the said model has been stopped.
WSC model: You must buy a license from WSC for a special brand and model which only are valid for 1 year. Than you have exclusivity to that car brand and model, for all parts and modifications. Next year you must buy a new license if you will continue.
Car and model that have no license today are;
-old Opel Astra OPC https://youtu.be/zgOr3KUzzjc
-old Ford Focus http://www.touringcartimes.com/2015/05/18/onyx-race-engineering-tests-tcr-ford-focus-at-brands/
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Old 27 Oct 2016, 14:13 (Ref:3683384)   #81
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Quote

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Originally Posted by Quintin03 View Post
Ralle, again, how do you know that the CLA 45 AMG is TCN2 certified? It's not mentioned anywhere on the page you link to. If you can't show how you know what you write, you're just talking ****, but I think that was clear a while ago.


Mr Quintin03
If you can´t see the different between;
1. TCR by private company promotor World sporting Consulting LTD http://tcr-series.com/
And
2. FIA www.fia .com
Why write, is´t it better you read the two regulations!! Before you speak?

If you read FIA´s regulations for TCN2 car you find this;

FIA art 262 Appendix J TCN2 rules, these regulations you find on www.fia.com
The series production car on which the TCN2 car is based.
- Corresponding to FIA Homologation Criteria for Touring Cars (Grupp A)
-2 wheel drive
-4/5 doors (2/3 doors allowed only if the silhouette is identical to the 4/5 doors version
- Minimum length 4,2 meter

Last edited by Ralle; 27 Oct 2016 at 14:42.
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Old 27 Oct 2016, 14:43 (Ref:3683391)   #82
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Bramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Could we please go back on topic again? STCC, rather than TCN2?
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Old 28 Oct 2016, 09:05 (Ref:3683563)   #83
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Ralle, it seems you have finally done it. You've quoted the FIA TCN rules. Not the TCN2 rules though. Now I will be a good sport and say I have now managed to find art 262B pertaining to the specific regulations for TCN2. Of course I shouldn't have to have gone looking for it, it is on you to provide evidence for your claims, not me. Fortunately for you Art 262B does not further specify that rear wheel drive is disallowed. There is a precedence however for front wheel drive being preferred, which is shown in sub-article 601 (those are the numbers in the rightmost collumn by the way). Which states: "If the original car is AWD, the driving mechanism of the rear axle must be removed."

So hooray, we've come to a conclusion that you were right all along that TCN2 regulations do not in principle prohibit rear wheel drive vehicles, but does prefer front wheel drive vehicles, while TCR regulations do in principle prohibit rear wheel drive vehicles, but provide for a way in which these may nevertheless be certified.

Of course you have now proven just the tiniest of parts of your argument for why STCC should have adopted the equivalent TCN2 over TCR and in investigating further we've found that this part is much less convincing than you say, because what you present as a downside to adopting TCR may well never actually matter if rear wheel drive cars are simply always accepted by WSC.
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Old 28 Oct 2016, 16:47 (Ref:3683654)   #84
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Originally Posted by Quintin03 View Post
Of course I shouldn't have to have gone looking for it, it is on you to provide evidence for your claims, not me.
I don't know why people feel entitled to have others do their research for them.
This isn't a court of law, or an academic paper, it's an internet fan forum. Therefore no-one is under any obligation to provide evidence to back up things they say.
If you dispute someone's claim, stop being lazy and go find the evidence to refute their claim.
No-one on here is entitled to anyone else's research as we're all fully capable of doing it ourselves.
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Old 28 Oct 2016, 18:35 (Ref:3683684)   #85
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FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
------------------

From now under this line we go back talking about STCC.
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Old 30 Oct 2016, 00:22 (Ref:3683918)   #86
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------------------

From now under this line we go back talking about STCC.


Is there an up to date entry list estimation? And is it still looking bleak?!


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Old 30 Oct 2016, 14:26 (Ref:3684011)   #87
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Racing Harz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRacing Harz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Is there an up to date entry list estimation? And is it still looking bleak?!


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3 x PWR Racing León (maybe up to 6) - confirmed
1 x Lestrup Golf - confirmed
1 - 2 x NIKA Astra ?
2 - 3 x Kristofferson RS3 ?
1 x Brovallen Focus ?
2 x LMS Racing Leon (when STCC don´t clash with ADAC TCR)
Maybe Henrik Hedman with a Civic?
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Old 30 Oct 2016, 14:28 (Ref:3684012)   #88
Lando
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Originally Posted by Bcarr6 View Post
Is there an up to date entry list estimation? And is it still looking bleak?!


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Estimations are:

Most likely:
PWR Racing - three SEAT
Lestrup Racing/Warnelow - one Golf
LMS Racing - two SEAT

Sum: 6 cars

Rumored:

PWR Racing - two additional SEAT in a joint venture with another team
Lestrup Racing - one additional Golf
Brovallen - one Kia maybe
NIKA Racing - one Opel
Bennys (Carrera Cup team) - two cars (make unknown)

Sum: 7 cars

Of the rumored 3-4 cars are likely to see the grid in at least the first few races.

Expect a STCC grid of around 10 cars next year.
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Old 30 Oct 2016, 20:04 (Ref:3684086)   #89
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What about Hugo Nerman? He ran in Adria in TCR Italy months ago, with a Civic TCS, and seems to be very fast. No Civics for STCC?
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Old 31 Oct 2016, 10:21 (Ref:3684237)   #90
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What about Hugo Nerman? He ran in Adria in TCR Italy months ago, with a Civic TCS, and seems to be very fast. No Civics for STCC?
Hugo Nerman drove Formula Renault in Sweden this season, and will probably continue in Formula Renault next year.
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Old 31 Oct 2016, 14:56 (Ref:3684296)   #91
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Thanks. He made a very good impression, I think he deserves attention.
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 08:58 (Ref:3684465)   #92
Lando
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Confirmed

Lestrup Racing Team - Albin Warnelov - VW Golf
PWR Racing Team - TBA - SEAT Leon
PWR Racing Team - TBA - SEAT Leon
PWR Racing Team - TBA - SEAT Leon

Rumored

LMS Racing - TBA - SEAT Leon
LMS Racing - TBA - SEAT Leon
PWR Racing Team / Brink Motorsport - TBA - SEAT Leon
PWR Racing Team / Brink Motorsport - TBA - SEAT Leon
Bennys - TBA - TBA
Lestrup Racing - TBA - VW Golf

Speculated

Nika Racing - TBA - Opel
Brovallen - TBA - Kia Cee'd
Unknown - TBA - Honda Civic
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 09:15 (Ref:3684468)   #93
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Bramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Is WestCoast Racings TCR operation ran from Sweden or from Italy? If its ran from Sweden they could perhaps enter selected rounds that don't conflict with the international championship?
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 09:32 (Ref:3684472)   #94
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WCR is Swedish, Jas Motorsport (which builds the Honda TCR cars) is Italian. I think they are in strict collaboration.

WCR entries in STCC would be a logical consequence, but maybe it's not so easy.
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 09:39 (Ref:3684476)   #95
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Originally Posted by Bramzel View Post
Is WestCoast Racings TCR operation ran from Sweden or from Italy? If its ran from Sweden they could perhaps enter selected rounds that don't conflict with the international championship?
Afaik the cars have never been in Sweden. The crew is a mix of Swedes and international guys.
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 09:59 (Ref:3684478)   #96
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Originally Posted by Bramzel View Post
Is WestCoast Racings TCR operation ran from Sweden or from Italy? If its ran from Sweden they could perhaps enter selected rounds that don't conflict with the international championship?

WCR has clearly said in Sweden they will not join STCC TCR in 2017 so don't expect any cars from them.
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 10:39 (Ref:3684484)   #97
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Too bad
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Old 1 Nov 2016, 12:37 (Ref:3684506)   #98
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I'd really like to see a race at Ahvenisto.
Well that sounds nice. Ahvenisto is the only track with Fia Grade in Finland right now.
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Old 2 Nov 2016, 18:26 (Ref:3684819)   #99
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Ahvenisto is the only track with Fia Grade in Finland right now.
So Alastaro didn't renew their FIA license for this year? It was Grade 4 in 2015.

EDIT: Ahvenisto doesn't have a FIA grade either: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...cescircuit.pdf (as in 28 September 2016)
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Old 3 Nov 2016, 09:13 (Ref:3684967)   #100
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Originally Posted by Valker View Post
So Alastaro didn't renew their FIA license for this year? It was Grade 4 in 2015.

EDIT: Ahvenisto doesn't have a FIA grade either: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...cescircuit.pdf (as in 28 September 2016)
Alastaro had a probably special license for 2015 so they could drive F4 in there. I did find this for Ahvenisto: https://s11.postimg.org/a8rx5l67n/Fia_Grade4.jpg

Ahvenisto does have license, wonder why i's not in the list?
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