Why did Button get an F1 drive?

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Unfair to make that direct comparison of anything since 2000 - because JB has been in F1 since then.

Well Button never won an F3 title.
If he hadn't have got the Williams drive in 2000, would he have gone back to Promatecme in British F3? Wasn't that the year the Renault was totally outclassed?

[Son of Jor-El]

This is turning into a Button Bash, isn't it?!!!

[Kicking-back]

The question about "what would he have done if he hadn't got the Williams drive" is irrelevant.

He did!

[Raven]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Yes it would - that would have devalued the achievement for both him and Mika - they didn't finish 1-2 at every race!

Well they finished 1-2 in the race that decided the championship. No need to nit-pick the whole season, MS & MH were clearly a cut above the rest that year.

[Gaz]

Its a great point kicking-back! This is a pointless thread and one obviously drawn up by someone jealous of Button's achievements!

I'm sure, in fact certain that if Jense was in Champ Cars in the Newman Haas car he would have won the title by now without doubt! He certainly wouldn't have stuck it in the wall as many times as Junq!

Button was set to return to F3 in 2000 yes, with which team who knows. If he knew Renault were going to be slow he'd have gone elsewhere...Carlin maybe. Pointless anyway cos what happened, happened. Winning the F3000 title has meant nothing for 4-5 seasons. Out of the drivers to win it in that time have any of them impressed or got anywhere...not really. Most drivers winning it have taken 2-3 seasons to actually do it. Drivers such as Alonso who have graduated only spent a year in the series and impressed enough to move to move up.

As someone else pointed out, if he was THAT talented he would have been picked up by now. If he was THAT talented Williams wouldn't have taken the risk on Button and would have gone for Junq instead. Button was hardly a pay driver was he?

[Raven]

Originally posted by Gaz
Button was hardly a pay driver was he?

Neither were/are. They are both quite evenly matched and if Button is better (and I don't think he is!) it's not by much.

[Testure]

Originally posted by Gaz
As someone else pointed out, if he was THAT talented he would have been picked up by now.

The implication of that point is that the best drivers always end up in F1. That's such a laughable idea these days that, frankly, it devalues many of the other arguments I've read here.

Most of the posts in this thread seem to be basically divided between those from fans of Jenson and those from fans of Bruno, with statistics able to kinda-sorta back up either camp. Personally, I don't think Jenson "deserved" his F1 seat in 2000; he was too young. He had some impressive moments in his first year, but, for me, the following three seasons were little to write home about. I think Bruno would have done just as well in that Williams, if not better; especially given his greater racing experience.

It's all history, though. There's dozens and dozens of great, great drivers throughout the years who I'd have loved to have seen in F1 machinery, but never will. I suspect Bruno will remain one of those.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Testure
The implication of that point is that the best drivers always end up in F1.

Despite the cynicism of some people, most of them do.

[Gaz]

Most drivers who are REALLY and I'm talking REALLY talented end up in F1 these days. I'm not talking about excellent drivers I'm talking about world class drivers. A few slip through the net but the majority of drivers come through.

"The following three seasons were nothing to write home about"...hang on be blew away JV last season and out did Jarno Trulli in 2002! Hardly two average seasons that!

Bruno will just rot away in the land of Champ Cars which is where quite frankly he belongs! In a series for average drivers who will never make the grade in F1 (I'm talking about the Champ Cars of the last 2 years not before).

Jense might have come in early but he proved himself. Frank Williams knew what he was doing, if Junq had really been a star he would have chosen him over Button anyday. Quite frankly considering it was a shoot out and Frank made his decision from that how any of you can question his decision is beyond me considering none of you were there or knew the exact details of what was behind Franks decision!

[Kicking-back]

It's Frank's team.

He can employ whoever he wants.

[RapidTron]

it seems that to a lot of fans frank williams is utterly clueless unless they need him to support their boy jv.

[paulzinho]

Interesting that someone mentioned Button not being a pay driver as I remember hearing somewhere the little known fact that sponsors had to pay a few million to get him that Williams drive initially!

At the time I think Junqueira would have been the better option, reflected in Buttons downfall in subsequent years (partly machinery, partly Buttons lifestyle). I think Bruno could have done as good as, if not better job.

But credit to Jenson he's turned himself around and is now one of the greatest talents in F1 at the moment and i'm hoping he can win soon!

[Andrew2001]

I think Jenson is better. It's so funny how the hype is surrounding him all over again, like it was in his debut year, when he chased Ralf hard in many races. I never forgot about him, even when he struggled at Benetton/Renault in 2001-2002. Just because he was not getting good results, it does not make him a **** driver all over again. So many people doubt Kimi at the moment, just because he is not delivering the results, he is at least the 2nd best out there any many people's minds, maybe not the ones who judge drivers by their results and not by their performances.
Go Jense.

[Fan]

Button probably would have got a drive with Prost, either test or race. If he had just tested he would have raced in F3000 I think.

[spider]

Button's career path has been eventful and he will have learnt a lot from his Benetton/Renault days and it will have made him stronger. Remember that Prost REALLY rated Jens after running him for the first time at Barca! Prost was stunned.

Junky - nice bloke, solid driver, but hasn't got that X-factor you need to be truly world class. Bourdais though, IMO and I'm sure those who have seen him in Champ Car will agree, is head and shoulders above that field in terms of outright pace and would do well in F1. I'd be surprised if he never gets a chance...but, having said that, who would take him on...?

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by paulzinho
Interesting that someone mentioned Button not being a pay driver as I remember hearing somewhere the little known fact that sponsors had to pay a few million to get him that Williams drive initially!

That doesn't ring true.

[Super Tourer]

I don't think Button paid FW for the drive, at that time he was backed through the junior formula by the Robertsons led consortium, you didn't see Button sponsored specifically until F3 where he briefly wore Marlboro colours.

In the end Williams got Button in the car and 'paid' him £100K or whatever, so it was a very cheap deal for them and didn't turn out at all badly, 12 points on the board in his debut year was pretty good, even compared to Ralf's 24 points.

[gttouring]

Button? why did any one take a chance on Kimi? that was a gamble, sure he started only 23 races, and 19 from the poles and podiumed ithink 21 of them nevermind winning most, but Kimi was-IS so young and he is a stunner.
Perhaps Jenson showed all that good stuff to Sir Frank, He has done Williams proud anyway, now with the rising Honda team, Button is a star, no one made a mistake on that.

[BootsOntheSide]

There are some silly arguments here.

In 2000 F3000, Webebr and Alonso were rookies, and F3000 is one of the most experience-dependant championships of all (only Heidfeld has come anywhere close to winning it as a rookie). Minassian's record in CART (and everythign else sicne) doesn't mark him out as a star.

As for his season with Brack in 2002, people are forgetting that Kenny only really succeeded on ovals in CART, and by that season the schedule was mainly road/street based.

Beating Trulli in 2002 certainly doesn't look like a poor season now, especially consdiering how well Jarno is doing at Renault now, and that Jenson was basically unwante dby Flavio that year.

Finishing 3rd as a rookie in UK F3 (especially as it was such a strong field) is a rare achievement, particuarly as Paul Stewart Racing was a strogner team at the time.

Jenson basically had a Prost drive waiting for him if Williams rejected him (as it turned out, in a completely uncompetitive team) - Bruno didn't attract interest from anyone else.

[Kicking-back]

Good summary, Boots on the Side.

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
only Heidfeld has come anywhere close to winning it as a rookie.

What about Montoya in 97? He was only 1.5 points off the title and you can harldy say he has done nothing!

I think its a little hard to say Bruno had no interest from F1 teams, he was a Williams contracted driver and tested for the team. When Montoya moved back into the Williams team for 01, Bruno moved the oposite way and was loaned to Ganassi.

The fact that it has taken Button 5 years to start to do anything in F1 proved he jumped too early into the sport.

[Kicking-back]

Button didn't jump too early into the sport.

He performed well in his first year.

It's only now he's had a front-running car, rather than any lack of talent.

[Dan Fielden]

Think of it this way. If BJ was such a hot prospect and should be in f1 then why is he not. I have noticed 2 good drivers in the states 1) Paul Tracy 2) Scot Dixon.
Paul Tracy is not in F1 because he is too old and wants to stay in the states where he is a house hold name. And Scot Dixon is talking to a number of f1 team bosses. Chip Ganassi have even told him he can re-sign for Chip at the first race of next year, ( Because is contract is up this year), because there have been a few f1 contracts put to his attention and guess which team have more interest. The team that signed. J.V, J.P.M. and the great Jenson Button. Is Bruno good? Yes. can he be in F1? NO

[Rennen]

Originally posted by esorniloc
OK think back to the end of 99/ begining of 2000.

Williams ran Ralf and Zanardi in 99, but Zanardi left after 99 leaving a seat for 2000 at Williams. It was clear that Montoya was coming for 2001, so it was a 1-year drive and Williams let 2 young drivers `test out' for the drive Jenson Button and Bruno Junqueira.

In the end Button got the drive and Bruno was the test driver and raced in F3000 winning the title. Why did Jenson get the drive over Bruno? Was it just because he was faster or was there some other factor?

Since then Jenson has had some bad years in F1 till this one and Bruno has raced in Champ Car finishing 2nd in the championship twice and currently leads the standings. How different could it have been if Bruno had got the drive instead of Button?

Better professional Management!

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by esorniloc

The fact that it has taken Button 5 years to start to do anything in F1 proved he jumped too early into the sport.

Do you call this 'nothing'?:

• Qualifying third in his first ever visit to Spa (the hardest circuit of them all)
• Becoming the youngest-ever point-scorer in F1 history
• Running Ralf close in the championship as a rookie
• Qualifying 6th for only his 4th race despite the pressure of running at home
• Demolishing trulli in 2002 despite no support form the team
• Hounding a former World Champion into retirement

Fair point about Montoya though - I agree that he's quite a talent.