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Old 13 Aug 2015, 16:29 (Ref:3565836)   #1301
Danske
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Can you clarify that last statement a bit?
Well, duh. The fans want LMP1 and GTE, so if the series were For the Fans those would be the two and only two classes.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 16:51 (Ref:3565841)   #1302
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Can you clarify that last statement a bit? When actually attending races I still feel like the series and teams treat fans as an important resource. The series had been working to improve TV coverage and had added the RLM team back for radio but includes video as well. Which is something fans specifically wanted.
I agree.

A lot of the anti-IMSA people seem to go out of their way to tell everyone they don't attend IMSA races either, because of internal prejudices.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 17:55 (Ref:3565855)   #1303
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Can you clarify that last statement a bit? When actually attending races I still feel like the series and teams treat fans as an important resource. The series had been working to improve TV coverage and had added the RLM team back for radio but includes video as well. Which is something fans specifically wanted.
Sure. Look at who each slogan places responsibility on. "For the Fans" is essentially a commitment, a promise by the series that they will do their best to make it awesome for those of us that buy tickets to their races.
"Follow Us" places the expectation of activity on the fan, while nothing is actually said about the series.

I haven't been to an IMSA race since Road America last year, but there are a number of-perhaps subtle-differences in the two series.

-The presentation of the paddock was similar, but the overall attitude wasn't very friendly. However, as I noted above, there are many people in IMSA and PWC who are still very friendly to fans, and that is always appreciated.

-At ALMS races at RA, the fan walk took place on the grid, on the track itself. IMSA's took place on pitlane. May not seem like a big difference on paper, but as a fan, there is nothing like walking on Elkhart Lake's most hallowed ground - where McLarens and Chaparrals did battle in the 1960's, where Audi R10's Porsche RS Spyders, Vettes and Astons, Lizard 911s and Risi 430s warred in the mid-2000's - mere moments before yet another race is unleashed. Pit Lane is cool, but not that cool.

-The "Fan Zone" is another issue. It's set up as a distraction, I felt it was very insulting to fans.

There are other issues, but I don't want to turn this into a huge argument.

The first post was intended to give credit to the individuals in PWC and in IMSA who repeatedly go out of their way to keep the spirit of "For the Fans" alive.

Last edited by Mechanic Z; 13 Aug 2015 at 18:10.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 18:09 (Ref:3565858)   #1304
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I agree.

A lot of the anti-IMSA people seem to go out of their way to tell everyone they don't attend IMSA races either, because of internal prejudices.
Hey, Matt, thanks for the shoutout. Didn't think I did Twitter so well it merited much quoting...

Okay, seriously now. As I said in the above post, I haven't posted on the IMSA threads much. Been trying to post more about the racing I do enjoy (PWC) and leave alone the stuff I don't.

As for Twitter, I actually don't regularly post stuff about IMSA there, either.
The only reason I did last weekend is because it was an event I had attended in the past, and essentially, the weekend my beloved old ALMS event used to race on.

Again, the intent of the first post was to give credit to the people who keep sports car racing for the fans. These individuals and teams are awesome, and deserve appreciation for what they continue to do for fans.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 18:25 (Ref:3565863)   #1305
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Sounds like people miss that one P1 car that raced itself.

But it was so advanced!!!

No it wasn't, they very outdated compared to the real P1. The series needed real P1 hybrid factories like the Audi R18.

But we can't those, so they pretty much have restart the Protoype class. Hopefully the new IMSA P2 will be allowed to evolve just like the WSC cars. That's my hope.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 18:45 (Ref:3565868)   #1306
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Hey, Matt, thanks for the shoutout. Didn't think I did Twitter so well it merited much quoting...
it's more the fact that quite a few of us know that yourself and a few others will be the source of many ridiculous #hot #takes over the course of racing weekends.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 18:52 (Ref:3565870)   #1307
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Sounds like people miss that one P1 car that raced itself.

But it was so advanced!!!

No it wasn't, they very outdated compared to the real P1. The series needed real P1 hybrid factories like the Audi R18.

But we can't those, so they pretty much have restart the Protoype class. Hopefully the new IMSA P2 will be allowed to evolve just like the WSC cars. That's my hope.
I'd rather watch one P1 "race against itself" than 10 DPs getting all boogity boogity.

And we would have seen the R18s, 919s and likely the GTR-LM at least at Sebring if not for the current state of things.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:02 (Ref:3565871)   #1308
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Maybe a Rebellion and possibly Dyson would be still running if lmp1 was a class. Audi would show up at Sebring, and I bet Porsche would follow. Now all us in America who love real prototypes get to look forward to is COTA. Not fun.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:05 (Ref:3565874)   #1309
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I just like racing and watching racecars circulate a track, regardless of what they are.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:10 (Ref:3565878)   #1310
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it's more the fact that quite a few of us know that yourself and a few others will be the source of many ridiculous #hot #takes over the course of racing weekends.
I have no idea what you're talking about right here. What do those hashtags mean?
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:22 (Ref:3565882)   #1311
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I have no idea what you're talking about right here. What do those hashtags mean?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hot+take
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:24 (Ref:3565883)   #1312
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The same old same old answer, "I rather watch this then DPs"!


Well I rather watch a GTE with GT3 in tow instead of Spec HPD and Orecas!
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:31 (Ref:3565886)   #1313
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I just like racing and watching racecars circulate a track, regardless of what they are.
.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 19:51 (Ref:3565888)   #1314
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Jaguar4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN View Post
I'd rather watch one P1 "race against itself" than 10 DPs getting all boogity boogity.

And we would have seen the R18s, 919s and likely the GTR-LM at least at Sebring if not for the current state of things.
DP's are going away in 2017. Why even post here if you hate the series so much? I for one is excited for the future of IMSA racing!

There would be no guarantee any of the P1 factory teams would show up and race. I like P1 too but the market isn't there at the moment to incorporate them into WTSC.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 20:18 (Ref:3565892)   #1315
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Any predictions as to what manufacturers will participate in prototype and what constructor will they team up with?
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 20:52 (Ref:3565898)   #1316
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GM and Mazda. Probably with Dallara and/or Riley-Multimatic. Engine + bodykit.

Perhaps HPD (Honda) as a engine supplier and perhaps with a bodykit, probably with OAK but maybe with others as well.

Bentley? Who knows?

Others? Ford is off to GT, I don't see anybody else on the horizon yet but that could change. Maybe a 'standard' P2 from a privateer or 2??? (not a clue where they should be coming from but alas.)
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 22:30 (Ref:3565907)   #1317
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If any GT3 cars get bumped from the Daytona 24 because of car caps when you have a handful of worthless LMPC cars running around taking up valuable grid space that will pi$$ me off so much.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 22:36 (Ref:3565909)   #1318
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No worries, they won't reach 65 (or there about).

P + PC + GTLM is 30 at maximum (25 is more realistic at this stage) which leaves more than enough space for the tsunami of GT3s!
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 23:18 (Ref:3565916)   #1319
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FLGTFAN has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I'm also optimistic about the future of IMSA, but not looking forward to another year of the current P class.

At least GTLM is seeing some interesting upgrades for 2016. GTD somewhat less. I don't see a tsunami of new teams coming in. I'll still be at the races though.
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Old 13 Aug 2015, 23:44 (Ref:3565919)   #1320
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Um, whatever...
My Twitter account speaks for itself.
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Old 14 Aug 2015, 00:17 (Ref:3565923)   #1321
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I just like racing and watching racecars circulate a track, regardless of what they are.
And that's fine, but pick your favorite series you follow and imagine watching the slow decline of many things that made it great, particularly due to management decisions. What would you do? I know I would try and do what I can to fix and improve by giving my feedback and being vocal (constructively) instead of moving on to another series.
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Old 14 Aug 2015, 01:09 (Ref:3565931)   #1322
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What would you do? I know I would try and do what I can to fix and improve by giving my feedback and being vocal (constructively) instead of moving on to another series.
Being constructive is where the difference comes for a lot of the people who take issue with the negativity.

For every one or two guys that are constructive with their criticism, there are a handful of people who make "OMG NASCER RUAND MAH SEREEZ" and "I'm too good to watch your pathetic series that doesn't have ridiculously expensive cars that no one wants to race outside of a few booming manufacturers at select rounds" and the like that do nothing to contribute to the conversation aside from sparking arguments and making people who are satisfied enough with the current experience feel like they are being talked down to.

The over-aggressive, unconstructive criticism puts the people who aren't unhappy on the defensive, and annoys them with "i doant watch dis garbaje its sux" posts filling up every discussion thread, and the arguments that result from it end up dividing the community more and creating a sort of "rivalry" where they need to compete with each other for the last word and to see who is the "true race fan," although if we are lucky we just get a snark-fest.

The forum in general suffers for it by giving mods more work to clean up, dividing the community, driving away enthusiasts that don't want to join into all the arguing and chasing older fans who are sick of it off and generally creating needless tension.

Nearly everyone gets involved in it at some point, I'm guilty of making snarky responses sometimes. We are all passionate about it so sometimes you just have to comment on something even when it isn't terribly helpful... It's just that for some people it's more frequent.

It's not so bad around here, but I've seen other forums descend into that mess and occasionally I see glimpses of it around here that make me worry.
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Old 14 Aug 2015, 02:00 (Ref:3565936)   #1323
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As the guy two above said, I only care to type my displeasure because I cared so deeply about the former product. Where else can I vent my frustration? And I do try to bite my tongue and keep the criticism to a minimum. And I am not someone who simply goes on the internet to complain that I am unhappy with the current state of things. This year as last year instead of going to the races over here that I used to go to I went to Le Mans to see the cars that actually interest me.

I suppose the reason for venting every so often and being a pain in the butt of people who are okay with the status quo is the hope that there is an outside chance that someone in a position of authority will read the posts of people who are unsatisfied and perhaps even more unlikely they will take it to heart and make changes. The many, many thousands of dollars I used to spend going to our domestic races I now instead spend at Le Mans and next month at COTA. I'd be happy to spend that money closer to home if the product was deserving.

And I get it, there are many people who are happy with racing in general and will be happy to see lawnmowers or spec Miatas or ancient tube frame cars. I suppose I'm not as good of fan of racing as those people. I wish I could enjoy things as simply as that. My problem is that I was spoiled with something that excited me to no end, inspired me and made me want to eat up as much of it as possible. Now to know that sports car racing is still the pinnacle of technology in motorsport but that it has been taken away from me because of poor decisions by people in authority, it just eats at me. Sorry for being one of "those" people, I just can't help it.

We are all fans, which as we know is short for fanatic. What do you expect us to do on the internet in a forum? I'd worry if there were no people complaining.

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Old 14 Aug 2015, 13:53 (Ref:3566016)   #1324
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...
For every one or two guys that are constructive with their criticism, there are a handful of people who make "OMG NASCER RUAND MAH SEREEZ" and "I'm too good to watch your pathetic series that doesn't have ridiculously expensive cars that no one wants to race outside of a few booming manufacturers at select rounds" and the like that do nothing to contribute to the conversation aside from sparking arguments and making people who are satisfied enough with the current experience feel like they are being talked down to.
...
Internally I'm part of that handful - though I try to be logical and diplomatic in my posts, so take this for what it's worth.

The bold part goes both ways. The unsatisfied are treated as though they're the ones with something wrong inside. If you look at the complainers and the anti-complainers, conversation (from my point of view) goes like such:

***

Me: Internal: "OMG NASCER RUAND MAH SEREEZ" Post on 10/10ths: "This doesn't seem like it is as good as it was."

Anti-complainer: "Stop having an opinion that doesn't bow down to whatever you're presented with. Be glad it exists. I could watch 100 Corollas race, and be happy. Why can't you? What's wrong with you? Something is wrong in your head. Why do you care so much? I'll spend money on something just to watch you get all riled up because you care so much about something."

***

So where does that leave us? You have to be qualified (or simply like the series) to voice a criticism? This series represents the fallout of no more ALMS, something the handful thought was a pretty great way to spend their disposable income. From a fan perspective, there's not much united other than the literal unification of the DP/P2 class. The racing product was changed to something we already knew wasn't our cup of tea.

That's great that for some people, it's changed more into something they like. Be patient with the rest. Either they'll come around, or go away. For people like ATLFalconsFAN and I, we hang around because we know there's change on the horizon. Whatever hope is left hopes that we can better buy into what's next for sports car racing in North America.
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Old 14 Aug 2015, 14:11 (Ref:3566018)   #1325
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I am a pretty hardcore sportscar fan. I liked it so much I even lived the dream and raced and took part in a racing organization for close to 20 years. I used to spectate at four or more events every year starting in the mid 60's. This year will end without me having gone to a single race. I miss it but the product is not compelling. IMSA is a particular disappointment because of the wasted potential - the cars and the race "management" are sorely lacking. I hope the situation will improve so I add my voice here in criticism knowing that management sees, hoping they care and hoping there's something for me to go to soon without the expense of a trip to France and unfortunate appearance of WEC at usurious and sterile COTA. What else is a forum for?
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