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Old 11 Oct 2014, 07:43 (Ref:3463275)   #151
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Thing is, it's good as a short-term business model but when you just end up alienating the current fanbase you have (who are one of the greatest marketing resources you have), you're left with no-one that really cares because there is no hardcore fan to help create any new ones. You're left with 'casual' viewers being all that's left.

That said, it is a complete Catch 22 situation though, I understand that. Manufacturers seem to run most series these days: no-one ever stands up to them in any series really, just try to keep the ones they've got happy at any expense.

See also F1's 'go faster' buttons and WRC's proposed 'shootout' format.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 15:21 (Ref:3465948)   #152
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http://nasportscar.com/tusc-like-the...er-and-better/

Great article folks I recommend this read. I agree completely. Just to add some details to it the ELMS class structure today should be almost exactly what TUSC should be in 2017. I say almost because ELMS GTE is pro-am and GT3 has a 40 kg ballast as the article above mentions. I don't think those two avenues are necessary in IMSA thankfully.

1. LMP2: grandfather today's Ligiers, HPD coupes etc though for a year, DP's gone. Technical regs TBA of course.

2. GTLM: in 2016 they should receive a horsepower boost in the regs, should go 2-3 seconds a lap faster at Daytona and Sebring than they are now)

3. GTD: Full FIA GT3 spec, No added weight or anything needed like ELMS does it. Can keep the contis and pro-am rules though.

No need for a pro-am specific class. Lose LMPC, no LMP3 needed either. Pro-ams can run for the pro-am trophies in P and GTLM that starts next year or go GT3.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 16:53 (Ref:3465985)   #153
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One thing ELMS Does have going for it, is race fans can still see a top-tier series running real P1 cars in Europe, if only at a few races, while in the U.S. there is only one WEC race.

From the start of iLMC, ELMS was no longer top dog, and fans adjusted to that. In the U.S. Tudor is the top of the heap, and since it is essentially a mirror of a second-tier series ... North American fans feel very cheated.

ALMS fans are used to being pretty much top of the world—for a dozen years ALMS had arguably the best sports car racing around, with LMS/ELMS second. Now those fans are being Told they are still getting world-class, top-tier sports car racing, but they know better.

ELMS fans know what the series is, too, but they also know that with all the other series on the continent, they don't need ELMS to be the biggest and baddest.

In North America, what else is there? Pirelli World Challenge and some amateur SCCA stuff?

Unless the 2017 LMP2 is an amazing piece of machinery, Ii don't see TUSC ever being fully accepted by North Americvan sports car fans, no matter how much it tries to imitate ELMS.

Also—ELMS has a five-race schedule. They can't afford to run more than that I guess. So while the series has made a Huge turnaround, and offers excellent racing, it isn't necessarily the best model for a top-tier racing series.

Though probably if TUSC cut back to half-a-dozen races strategically placed to cover all major markets, they could boost attendance.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 17:00 (Ref:3465988)   #154
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One thing ELMS Does have going for it, is race fans can still see a top-tier series running real P1 cars in Europe, if only at a few races, while in the U.S. there is only one WEC race.

From the start of iLMC, ELMS was no longer top dog, and fans adjusted to that. In the U.S. Tudor is the top of the heap, and since it is essentially a mirror of a second-tier series ... North American fans feel very cheated.

ALMS fans are used to being pretty much top of the world—for a dozen years ALMS had arguably the best sports car racing around, with LMS/ELMS second. Now those fans are being Told they are still getting world-class, top-tier sports car racing, but they know better.

ELMS fans know what the series is, too, but they also know that with all the other series on the continent, they don't need ELMS to be the biggest and baddest.

In North America, what else is there? Pirelli World Challenge and some amateur SCCA stuff?

Unless the 2017 LMP2 is an amazing piece of machinery, Ii don't see TUSC ever being fully accepted by North Americvan sports car fans, no matter how much it tries to imitate ELMS.

Also—ELMS has a five-race schedule. They can't afford to run more than that I guess. So while the series has made a Huge turnaround, and offers excellent racing, it isn't necessarily the best model for a top-tier racing series.

Though probably if TUSC cut back to half-a-dozen races strategically placed to cover all major markets, they could boost attendance.
One thing that has happended as a result of this merger and the WEC upping it's requirements is the lowering of Sebring and the non-inclusion of the 24 hours of Daytona in a world championship.

Both races DESERVE to be part of the WEC calendar. I don't know how you do it, but they should.

TUSCC would never do this, but I'd peel off both races and make them part of the WEC. Let the WEC manage the event and let TUSCC cars submit to race under the standard ACO rules.

Having them part of of a continental championship only lowers their stature.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 17:28 (Ref:3465996)   #155
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ELMS fans know what the series is
All five of them?
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 17:39 (Ref:3465999)   #156
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I can see that if the cost concerns stay for another few years that one of the best ways to reduce that would be to relinquish one of the four endurance events or split into two completely separate championships (sprint and endurance).
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 20:12 (Ref:3466026)   #157
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North American fans feel very cheated.
Now those fans are being Told they are still getting world-class, top-tier sports car racing, but they know better.

Unless the 2017 LMP2 is an amazing piece of machinery, Ii don't see TUSC ever being fully accepted by North Americvan sports car fans, no matter how much it tries to imitate ELMS.
U.S. fans do not feel cheated, I do not know of Mexico or Canada, nor are they "being told" anything.

They are being subjected to the results of arrogance and incompetence from the previous regimes that ran the two major road racing series in the U.S.
What they are getting is U.S. (France family style) contrived racing due to contrived rules.
The Frances saw the contrived rules used by the ACO, they had their NASCAR experience for decades with contrived rules, and now they want to force road racing to adapt to said same style.

If fans do not like it vote with their pocket books and change will continue whether good or bad.

With all the talk on this forum of -- they should balance this or balance that or not allow this or that... -- it seems the fans will accept what ever crap is thrown their way.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 20:35 (Ref:3466032)   #158
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All five of them?
That's quite harsh... it's a two digit fan base
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 22:43 (Ref:3466073)   #159
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All five of them?
Still more than AsLMS
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Old 18 Oct 2014, 01:14 (Ref:3466094)   #160
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One thing that has happended as a result of this merger and the WEC upping it's requirements is the lowering of Sebring and the non-inclusion of the 24 hours of Daytona in a world championship.

Both races DESERVE to be part of the WEC calendar. I don't know how you do it, but they should.

TUSCC would never do this, but I'd peel off both races and make them part of the WEC. Let the WEC manage the event and let TUSCC cars submit to race under the standard ACO rules.

Having them part of of a continental championship only lowers their stature.
It's simple. Ditch the non ACO cars. No PC, No DP's, No GTD. They can have a race in Kansas or some other craphole nobody cares about.

Two P2 cars, and 9 GTLM cars wont cause an issue.
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Old 18 Oct 2014, 14:55 (Ref:3466216)   #161
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Still more than AsLMS
You're telling me that their fanbase isn't in tens of thousands, as their facebook account seems to attempt make us believe?
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Old 31 Oct 2014, 18:05 (Ref:3470296)   #162
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There has been a lot of discussion lately about which GTD teams are going, which are staying, and which will just do the NAEC. The though crossed my mind that when GTD goes GT3 in 2016, will those teams still prefer the NAEC to a full season? And if the rest of the grid is healthy, would it be possible to just run the GT3's during the NAEC and not have them run the rest of the IMSA calendar?
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Old 31 Oct 2014, 18:35 (Ref:3470301)   #163
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One thing that has happended as a result of this merger and the WEC upping it's requirements is the lowering of Sebring and the non-inclusion of the 24 hours of Daytona in a world championship.

Both races DESERVE to be part of the WEC calendar. I don't know how you do it, but they should.

TUSCC would never do this, but I'd peel off both races and make them part of the WEC. Let the WEC manage the event and let TUSCC cars submit to race under the standard ACO rules.

Having them part of of a continental championship only lowers their stature.
Sebring's downfall is my biggest problem with tusc.
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Old 8 Nov 2014, 00:59 (Ref:3472669)   #164
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Coyote wanting to build a P2:

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/11069...yote-eyeing-p2
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 18:39 (Ref:3486146)   #165
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Chip Ganassi Racing and Ford 2 car campaign in 2016 TUSC and Le mans with new Ford GT.

http://autoweek.com/article/sports-c...p-ganassi-2016




L.P.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 18:51 (Ref:3486151)   #166
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Chip Ganassi Racing and Ford 2 car campaign in 2016 TUSC and Le mans with new Ford GT.

http://autoweek.com/article/sports-c...p-ganassi-2016




L.P.
Scratch another DP. Who will be the last one? Scott Pruett is going to get eaten alive in GTE. It will be awesome to see a factory Ford GTE car though.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 19:00 (Ref:3486157)   #167
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Some interesting details in there; the ending of Ganassi's prototype programme (just adopt existing P2 rules already, its now only GM wanting different bodies surely?) and that Ford have signed two other US drivers for the programme already. There's one for the rumour thread.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 19:21 (Ref:3486172)   #168
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Scratch another DP. Who will be the last one? Scott Pruett is going to get eaten alive in GTE. It will be awesome to see a factory Ford GTE car though.
I didn't see anything indicating that this would definitely be the end of the DP program in that article. Not saying it isn't happening, especially with Pruett moving over to the GT-side, but Ganassi is a big enough operation to run in both classes.

I don't think Ford and Ganassi would hang on to Pruett if they weren't convinced that he's gonna cut it. We'll have to wait and see there, though he is of course not getting any younger. Still, he was able to hold himself quite well in GA against guys like Long, Bergmeister or Rockenfeller, so a lack of talent is really not the issue.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 19:49 (Ref:3486188)   #169
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I didn't see anything indicating that this would definitely be the end of the DP program in that article. Not saying it isn't happening, especially with Pruett moving over to the GT-side, but Ganassi is a big enough operation to run in both classes.

I don't think Ford and Ganassi would hang on to Pruett if they weren't convinced that he's gonna cut it. We'll have to wait and see there, though he is of course not getting any younger. Still, he was able to hold himself quite well in GA against guys like Long, Bergmeister or Rockenfeller, so a lack of talent is really not the issue.
Yes, there are already other teams that field cars in more than one class in TUSC. CGR is certainly capable of it.







L.P.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 19:53 (Ref:3486189)   #170
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I didn't see anything indicating that this would definitely be the end of the DP program in that article. Not saying it isn't happening, especially with Pruett moving over to the GT-side, but Ganassi is a big enough operation to run in both classes.

I don't think Ford and Ganassi would hang on to Pruett if they weren't convinced that he's gonna cut it. We'll have to wait and see there, though he is of course not getting any younger. Still, he was able to hold himself quite well in GA against guys like Long, Bergmeister or Rockenfeller, so a lack of talent is really not the issue.
The SC365 article speculates the DP will be done once the GTE program comes online.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/leman...or-2016-debut/
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 21:05 (Ref:3486207)   #171
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I know he gets a lot of schtick for his "hi to my family at home" and such, but I kinda like Pruett. Plus he has "La Manz" gt experience
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 01:00 (Ref:3486280)   #172
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Some interesting details in there; the ending of Ganassi's prototype programme (just adopt existing P2 rules already, its now only GM wanting different bodies surely?) and that Ford have signed two other US drivers for the programme already. There's one for the rumour thread.
GM's commitment is kind of questionable itself given how involved Daytona is the whole Corvette DP thing. There's only one of those without direct ties to the France family anymore either.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 01:15 (Ref:3486285)   #173
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GM's commitment is kind of questionable itself given how involved Daytona is the whole Corvette DP thing. There's only one of those without direct ties to the France family anymore either.
I think GMs push for body work is questionable. Look at how half assed they did the C7 body work, just new lights. I think if GM really wanted body work they would of made a completely new kit and done more promotion than releasing a couple renders. I fear it is Imsa that wants to continue on this body kit DP-ish idea. It would be the France GA legacy and they are just telling us the manufactures want it.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 03:32 (Ref:3486314)   #174
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The SC365 article speculates the DP will be done once the GTE program comes online.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/leman...or-2016-debut/
Great news for that! However, I'm sure Chip Ganassi would run a P2 program alongside GTLM in 2017 or 2018 (should TUSC still exist)...

@Gulf

I agree about GM's half-assed effort on their C7 Corvette bodywork. Personally, if the IMSA wants to promote bodykits, they should make it extreme instead of just carbon copies of the roadcars they're basing at!
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 07:27 (Ref:3486350)   #175
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It's funny, remember that Evo concept from Chevy, you know the one of a LMP1 "Vette"? That's mean they were willing to spend millions on a state of art racing car, from the ground up. But now that concept has given way to "eh lets just stick a Vette body on a aging tube frame chassis...there done."

I would like to see Chevy do right and make that Evo Vette someday.


Heck,I would like to see extreme GT cars to make a comeback. If IMSA makes a GT1 like class as the top class of the series, I think Chevy would do it. Maybe Ford would make a Gt40 mk V to complete against it...

Yeah, too wishful...
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