NZV8S vs V8ST

[promax]

Originally Posted by Jerico

It will also give us ST fans the opportunity to try and be as negitive and as unjust as you NZV8 guys have been, but that will be a tall ask.

the ST side was postive and supportive of NZV8s? can someone please direct me to those posts

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

the ST side was postive and supportive of NZV8s? can someone please direct me to those posts

What are you *****ing about now? I would have to say that I like your posts better, when you are just posting pictures.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by promax

the ST side was postive and supportive of NZV8s? can someone please direct me to those posts

Refer to post 49.

Troll

[flyingduck]

I now have a foot in both camps so I think I can say both sides are as bad each other, thats why this split is going to damage NZ motorsport. If the NZV8 comes out with a quality product then they won't have the drivers the fans want to see.

If ST don't get top level support classes then people will wonder about the show and it not being for a NZ championship doesn't help

Where is this going to end?????????

You guys can get back to the Mud slinging I think most of you should be involved in the rally with the way it's thrown around on here.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

I now have a foot in both camps so I think I can say both sides are as bad each other, thats why this split is going to damage NZ motorsport. If the NZV8 comes out with a quality product then they won't have the drivers the fans want to see.

If ST don't get top level support classes then people will wonder about the show and it not being for a NZ championship doesn't help

Where is this going to end?????????

You guys can get back to the Mud slinging I think most of you should be involved in the rally with the way it's thrown around on here.

I vote the duck shooting season should be all year round.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

...thats why this split is going to damage NZ motorsport.
If the NZV8 comes out with a quality product then they won't have the drivers the fans want to see.

If ST don't get top level support classes then people will wonder about the show and it not being for a NZ championship doesn't help

Where is this going to end?????????

I just don't think it's as dire as you paint it

IF NZV8 get a grid there will be interest to see who achieves and who will go on to play with the big boys. The same as all the Teir One classes.

I suspect that all the fence sitting support classes are probably sniffing around to get a place on a well promoted card as we type

As for non NZ championship - a chocolate fish from MANZ doesn't count for too much now does it?
Think of all the kiwi drivers out in the big world who never achieved sweet FA in NZ before achieving a good rep elsewhere.

If you want to talk about meaningful NZ championships then THE ONLY ONE to talk about is FF.

[promax]

sensitive much? lol

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

sensitive much? lol

If that post came from anyone else other than you maxi, I would say it was sarcastic.

[RogerH]

If we are talking about NZ Championships then I think the NZV8 class has a problem.

The MSNZ rules with respect to Championship criteria states :

Championship status may be awarded to a class that MotorSport NZ considers has met the criteria above and is additionally in the national interest.
Prior to Championship status application a class shall have competed the previous season as a Sanctioned or challenge Series an should have demonstrated the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of scheduled rounds for the series.
For MotorSport NZ to consider status for a first or subsequent Championship the class must have been able to demonstrate the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of the previous seasons scheduled rounds of the series.

Due to the low grid numbers in the NZV8 last season, the class doesn't qualify as a Championship for the coming season and unless there are at least 15 of the new NZV8 cars it won't qualify for the season after next.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

There is a need (market) in this country for people to enjoy motorsport as spectators.....
A democratic club based structure should be inclusive, not devisive.

Great post.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by RogerH

If we are talking about NZ Championships then I think the NZV8 class has a problem.

The MSNZ rules with respect to Championship criteria states :

Championship status may be awarded to a class that MotorSport NZ considers has met the criteria above and is additionally in the national interest.
Prior to Championship status application a class shall have competed the previous season as a Sanctioned or challenge Series an should have demonstrated the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of scheduled rounds for the series.
For MotorSport NZ to consider status for a first or subsequent Championship the class must have been able to demonstrate the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of the previous seasons scheduled rounds of the series.

Due to the low grid numbers in the NZV8 last season, the class doesn't qualify as a Championship for the coming season and unless there are at least 15 of the new NZV8 cars it won't qualify for the season after next.

Most importantly, the series is already sanctioned as a Championship series. So unless there's something in the rules that states you have to reapply for Championship status each year, why would they need to meet the criteria for an application?

The other point is that the wording is very open, it says that you MAY be CONSIDERED and SHOULD have demonstrated... very different to you WILL be AWARDED and HAS TO have demonstrated... so I think there's a wiggle room there even if they decided a brand spanking new class was worth giving Championship status to.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Most importantly, the series is already sanctioned as a Championship series. So unless there's something in the rules that states you have to reapply for Championship status each year, why would they need to meet the criteria for an application?

The other point is that the wording is very open, it says that you MAY be CONSIDERED and SHOULD have demonstrated... very different to you WILL be AWARDED and HAS TO have demonstrated... so I think there's a wiggle room there even if they decided a brand spanking new class was worth giving Championship status to.

The word that catches them is the mandatory word - "must". For a subsequent Championship, they must be able to prove that they had the 15 vehicles in the previous season.

Championship status may be awarded to a class that MotorSport NZ considers has met the criteria above and is additionally in the national interest.
Prior to Championship status application a class shall have competed the previous season as a Sanctioned or challenge Series an should have demonstrated the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of scheduled rounds for the series.
For MotorSport NZ to consider status for a first or subsequent Championship the class must have been able to demonstrate the ability to have at least 15 vehicles contesting 75% of the previous seasons scheduled rounds of the series.

[BlueBlood]

Originally Posted by Jerico

I used to follow NZV8 closely and can honestly say with a lot of passion, but it soon become very obviouse to me that the ST was going to be of far more interest.
I don't think there would have been the commitment or the interest in the new NZV8, if it wasn't for the ST becoming part of and for the betterment of NZ motorsport. You only have to look at the interest already created and the following this series is getting, compared to the last season of the NZV8s.

The new NZV8 series with new cars will I hope produce some great racing for us all to see, it will create a lot of interest and discussion for all you NZV8 die hards. It will also give us ST fans the opportunity to try and be as negitive and as unjust as you NZV8 guys have been, but that will be a tall ask.

Could you explain to me what you meant in your post about FORD suffering on the dark side, I think I might know, but not 100% sure.

Firstly, as a NZV8 fan I have wanted to see more modern body styles for years, so ST has had no impact on my desire to see FG and VE body styles out there.

To your next point, what you see as negative towards ST, I see as my opinion in realtion to the one brand engine concept.
Without a doubt, the most negative aspect of the ST class is the over zealous fanboys who act like they have conquered the motorsport world.

My reference to the dark side was of course Holden, who for a few uncomfortable years had the edge over the might Blue oval.

Happy to see it is not the case now!!

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by RogerH

For MotorSport NZ to consider status for a first or subsequent Championship ....

A subsequent championship? If they already have one why would they need to apply for a second one? To run two championships at once?

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Firstly, as a NZV8 fan I have wanted to see more modern body styles for years, so ST has had no impact on my desire to see FG and VE body styles out there.

To your next point, what you see as negative towards ST, I see as my opinion in realtion to the one brand engine concept.
Without a doubt, the most negative aspect of the ST class is the over zealous fanboys who act like they have conquered the motorsport world.

My reference to the dark side was of course Holden, who for a few uncomfortable years had the edge over the might Blue oval.

Happy to see it is not the case now!!

If you can take your blue glasses off for two minutes and explain why my opinion makes me a fanboy? You said it yourself when you were talking about supercars the Ford and the darkside. PARITY. I think I was making a valid point. Parity is like a septic boil that needs to be lanced year after year, but never really heals and goes away.
ST is a concept that is about team and driver more so then just car and having the best horsepower in the field. The most cost effective way to have parity is to have one engine, and cost in New Zealand motorsport is a big player. While you have the blue goggles off could you also point out all the over zealous ST fanboy posts because I have not seen them. All said and done this is just my opinion and i'm aloud one. By the way I'm not just a bonnet badge racer. You may have a hard time bolting that ford donk in to that ford because it's not a Ford anymore!

[BlueBlood]

Apart from generic one make buzz boxes like Suzuki, mini,rx7 etc, most tin top racing around the world is in cars that in some way relate to the model they started as.
To most people a Ford or Holden wins at the mountain each year, a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Toyota wins the race to the chase etc.
It is not news that the cars have less original DNA than ever, but it is the fans passion that still makes the brands relevant.
No fans, no money, no racing, game over.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Apart from generic one make buzz boxes like Suzuki, mini,rx7 etc, most tin top racing around the world is in cars that in some way relate to the model they started as.
To most people a Ford or Holden wins at the mountain each year, a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Toyota wins the race to the chase etc.
It is not news that the cars have less original DNA than ever, but it is the fans passion that still makes the brands relevant.
No fans, no money, no racing, game over.

We the fans here don't seem to mind

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Apart from generic one make buzz boxes like Suzuki, mini,rx7 etc, most tin top racing around the world is in cars that in some way relate to the model they started as.
To most people a Ford or Holden wins at the mountain each year, a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Toyota wins the race to the chase etc.
It is not news that the cars have less original DNA than ever, but it is the fans passion that still makes the brands relevant.
No fans, no money, no racing, game over.

Yes a Holden wins running a Ford spec engine! All to have parity.
ST has just done it all out in the open.

I just can't see parity with the engines nzv8 want to run. The parity has been a problem in the past. Thats why nzv8 turned into Formula Ford and was that good for the sport and the fans? I would like to see the two engines aswell, but what would the cost be and could all the teams afford it? you would be getting back to the 50-60k plus an engine maybe more just to be able to say it's a Ford or Holden. It's a concept. The drivers - teams pitting their skills. I think there is room for that. A Ford car running a holden engine what is it Holden or Ford? How much of the car has to be ford to be able to call it a Ford? How long is a piece of string?

[BlueBlood]

Clarify GoatBoy

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Without a doubt, the most negative aspect of the ST class is the over zealous fanboys who act like they have conquered the motorsport world.

Blue blood, are you forgetting the fact that NZST has all the 'stars' in asthmatic cars, and (by all accounts) even bigger gaps between live races than NZV8s/Teir1??

must be those blue tinted goggles, aye

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

A subsequent championship? If they already have one why would they need to apply for a second one? To run two championships at once?

I presume the championship is awarded each year - for example the "Gold Star Race Champion NZV8 2010/11" - so a subsequent championship would be the "Gold Star Race Champion NZV8 2011/12".

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

Blue blood, are you forgetting the fact that NZST has all the 'stars' in asthmatic cars, and (by all accounts) even bigger gaps between live races than NZV8s/Teir1??

must be those blue tinted goggles, aye

Tell us the story again Joe how you gave Michael Joseph Savage a piece of your mind when you were a young guy. You may need to get you glasses. Anyway what are you doing up so late?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Tell us the story again Joe how you gave Michael Joseph Savage a piece of your mind when you were a young guy. You may need to get you glasses. Anyway what are you doing up so late?

wrong politician, it was Robert Mulddon.
up so late?? night off, usually working till early hours.

anyway, going to see real cars, with real drivers (some of whom are stars) tomorrow, parityno issue as talent and skill triumphs over budget and cheating.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Clarify GoatBoy

I don't think it's possible to clarify me

I meant the ST fans don't mind about the engines

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

wrong politician, it was Robert Mulddon.
up so late?? night off, usually working till early hours.

anyway, going to see real cars, with real drivers (some of whom are stars) tomorrow, parityno issue as talent and skill triumphs over budget and cheating.

I know it was Rob.