[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[deggis]

The quote from Bart Hayden that I mentioned above:

“The most important factor though behind our decision. Not just on the powerplant but on the whole programme, is the new regulations, and it isn’t a case of what it says, but rather what it doesn’t say. The current regulations have determined that a 2% performance gap is acceptable between the factory cars and that for private teams like ours. That regulation has been omitted for the new regulations, and by definition it is now regarded as unacceptable to have such a gap in performance.

Confusing: what is omitted, the whole BoP article or the 2% rule?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by deggis

The quote from Bart Hayden that I mentioned above:


Confusing: what is omitted, the whole BoP article or the 2% rule?

Article 19 of the current LMP rules which talks about "Adjustment of Performances" (AoP) has been entirely omitted in the new 2014 rules. We would have to wait to see if the future Sporting Regulations that will apply next year will still contain this (silly) 2% gap rule.

This being said, I believe that Bart Hayden is right to a certain extent in that the purpose of the new regulations is to guarantee an absolute "balance" between the various ERS options, at least from the point of view of the allocated energy. Everybody should be on equal footing in that respect.

Now, I however believe that Bart Hayden is entirely wrong when he expects the new rules to guarantee an absolute balance between the performance of the various cars. There is currently no BoP in the LMP1 class and the new regulations do not in any way introduce a BoP in the LMP1 class. Nothing has changed in that respect.

It is quite obvious that one should still expect gaps in performances under the new rules. The one ahead will be the one reliably using the allocated energy more efficiently that the others. Simple.

The ACO-FIA will still have to find ways to adjust the performances of the cars. The only difference resides in the fact that the ACO-FIA will not be able to play with air-restrictor sizes, but will tweak the Appendix B figures.

[Gingers4Justice]

I really thought the interpretation Hayden presented was strange. I didn't think the rules meant that the gap had to be 2%, no more and no less. That seemed to be the way he read it.

The way I see it, there organisers are under no obligation to keep the gap that close anymore.

[Articus]

The way I see it. The new rules don't allow for BOP. And so you are given equal potential energy allotment..Its a whole other story converting that to kinetic energy...This is where we see who is managing what efficiencies in the drivertrain/combustion chamber. Now its really just about who can use the energy allotment the most effectively. I don't know why rebellion would be excited about this because factory teams have the edge in that they have resources.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Articus

The way I see it. The new rules don't account allow for BOP. And so you are given equal potential energy allotment..Its a whole other story converting that to kinetic energy...This is where we see who is managing what efficiencies in the drivertrain/combustion chamber. Now its really just about who can use the energy allotment the most effectively. I don't know why rebellion would be excited about this because factory teams have the edge in that they have resources.

Good points. Mind you, Rebellion are still a very professional team. I can't help but feel Bart Hayden knows something we don't.

[Articus]

I hope they do too. I hope it becomes less obvious who has the most horsepower next season because teams are using differing strategies and that fuel management teams can keep up with teams who are choosing flatout strategy.

[MyNameIsNigel]

On paper at least, private teams like Rebellion should be reasonably competitive with the non-hybrid option. They won't have to spend anything to develop or buy possibly expensive hybrid systems. They can "simply" focus on the task of developing a reliable and efficient non-hybrid car.

There is at least one highly positive thing in the new regulations as far as private teams opting for the non-hybrid option are concerned. The "No ERS" option is exclusively available to private teams, which means that the ACO-FIA have a very simple tool at their disposal to help the non-hybrid private teams: they just have to tweak the figures in the first column of the table of Appendix B. This will have no impact whatsoever on the constructors which have to choose between the various ERS options. In other words, the ACO-FIA can specifically help the private teams (as long as they have chosen the non-hybrid route) if they want to.

[avvelenamento]

hybridless cars should receive a lot of helps to be as competitive as private hybrid cars. This year with just 0.5MJ releasable, difference between hybrid and not hybrid is not so deep, but next year it will be. When the 3.5 formula debuted in 1991 le mans the new work and more aero developed (and 150kg lighter) C1 cars were terribly slower compared to the old work C2 cars, because of the deep power difference.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

hybridless cars should receive a lot of helps to be as competitive as private hybrid cars. This year with just 0.5MJ releasable, difference between hybrid and not hybrid is not so deep, but next year it will be. When the 3.5 formula debuted in 1991 le mans the new work and more aero developed (and 150kg lighter) C1 cars were terribly slower compared to the old work C2 cars, because of the deep power difference.

They already do under the future 2014 rules. Non-hybrid cars benefit of a higher fuel (energy) allocation per lap as well as a higher maximum allowable fuel flow. They can burn more fuel at a higher rate. If you do the calculations, the overall energy allocated to each type of ERS option (0MJ to 8MJ) is substantially the same. gwyllion provided a demonstration some time ago. On paper, there is no reason to believe that a non-hybrid LMP1 will be slower than any of the other hybrid LMP1s.

[avvelenamento]

so why a private team should spend more to have an hybrid lmp1?

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by deggis

Not sure what you are actually asking. Does this answer?

Definitely yes! Thanks, I was wondering if there was some kind of space to play with the fuel. Nothing forbids Isobutanol, Natural Gas or Bituminous coal, they just have to submit the previous approval.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

so why a private team should spend more to have an hybrid lmp1?

Good question ! They shouldn't spend a penny on any hybrid system IMHO

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Good question ! They shouldn't spend a penny on any hybrid system IMHO

And I bet none will

[avvelenamento]

Did not strakka retire from wec to save money to buy an 8MJ option honda-wirth 2014 coupè?

[MyNameIsNigel]

With which engine option ? HPD ? The new HPD engine is not due to be equipped with any hybrid system before 2015 or 2016.

In any event, I really wonder if the 8MJ hybrid route is a smart option for Strakka or any other private team. Too costly. Too expensive to develop. Probably too complex to run. For which gain ?

At this stage, the hybrid option may simply be superfluous for private teams desiring to be competitive. At least, the hybrid system is not a guarantee of competitiveness. The only thing that is guaranteed at this stage is that you would have to spend "much" more to buy a hybrid option.

If I were the owner of a LMP1 private team (which I am not ), I would rather put my money on a non-hybrid LMP1 and see where it goes from there.

[avvelenamento]

Well, strakka team reported that they had retired from wec to save money to buy the 8mj ers option 2014 wirth-honda. I forgot that honda delayed the ERS introduction to 2015. Maybe in future we will see some kind of cheap and home-made ERS used by private team like the hybrid systems used by dyson, swisstech and MIK corse.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

Well, strakka team reported that they had retired from wec to save money to buy the 8mj ers option 2014 wirth-honda.

You're making that part up, when they announced this they were infact very unspecific:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130711/alms/130719957

[avvelenamento]

I can't remember where have I read it, but I've read that strakka was saving money to purcahse the best honda available package (the 8mj ERS) to be competitive in 2014. Of course I've read it some time before the honda decision to delay the ERS to 2015.

[cdsvg]

An interesting change in the latest 2014 draft regs - the rear wing is no longer included in the max length / max rear overhang limits. Does it mean the rear wing can be placed pretty much anywhere longitudinally?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by cdsvg

An interesting change in the latest 2014 draft regs - the rear wing is no longer included in the max length / max rear overhang limits. Does it mean the rear wing can be placed pretty much anywhere longitudinally?

I don't think so. The rear wing is actually part of the bodywork and the dimensions apply to the bodywork as a whole (including the rear wing). The change is likely more of cosmetic nature.

[deggis]

Latest RCE has an article. Lots of speculation what will each manufacturer do.

Pages 44-50: http://gb.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issn=...096&o=ext&p=46

Note: link goes to page 46, since the first double page had nothing interesting, and you only have three zooms.

[Spyderman]

Thanks but the link does not seem to work for me.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Thanks but the link does not seem to work for me.

Not very accurate error description.

Tested with multiple browsers.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/s...r-engineering/

=> "see inside", but that's almost the same link.

[silente]

nice thanks!

[gwyllion]

An interesting comment by Bart Hayden on the 2014 hybrid options:

It may be well that, beyond '14, it becomes apparent that to make it work you have to put yourself in one of those hybrid columns. And from the conversations that we've had with various people, they all say if you're going to go hybrid you need to go big; no point dallying about going small.

source: http://www.racer.com/rebellion-r-one...icle/312074/2/