IMSA: USCR 2018

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Yes there is... And it's the same reason IMSA cannot change their date to accommodate it: Tracks don't just sit silent all the time. They have other commitments including driving schools, club events, etc. Not all of these events can just be moved around at will.

While this often is a valid point - it's not in this case: Road Atlanta is - as we all know - owned by Nascar, who also happen to own IMSA. Other, lesser important events could be moved if Nascar/IMSA were to decide to move the date for Petit.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

While this often is a valid point - it's not in this case: Road Atlanta is - as we all know - owned by Nascar, who also happen to own IMSA. Other, lesser important events could be moved if Nascar/IMSA were to decide to move the date for Petit.

Doubtful at best, Road Atlanta has events all fall. There's zero chance the events who have signed contracts to use the track can move, or will want to move, as there are no open dates. And there's zero chance moving another event wouldn't get around fast and there are other tracks in the area who would jump to grab paying events.

[Akrapovic]

IMSA could move the date, but FOX cannot accommodate. However even if FOX and IMSA could arrange it being moved, why should they? I'm a WEC fan first, but I don't see why IMSA should move their event to try and accommodate WEC screwing over half their regulars to fit in one driver.

[chernaudi]

And that's how I see it. The date was originally moved to avoid this. Not to mention that it inconveniences those who planned around the original (moved) date just from a logistical standpoint.

I know that the ACO are doing this from PR/press POV, but at the same time, you don't screw over your "customers" who have ties to your series. Some of them might decide to do PLM just as a "take that" to the ACO and the WEC, though that probably depends on contracts and which one gets priority.

Ironically, Alonso's F1 contract likely taking priority is what brought this about.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

IMSA could move the date, but FOX cannot accommodate. However even if FOX and IMSA could arrange it being moved, why should they? I'm a WEC fan first, but I don't see why IMSA should move their event to try and accommodate WEC screwing over half their regulars to fit in one driver.

He is just one driver, but who that driver is and what he brings in terms of eyes on is the bigger picture. Most of if not all the guys who are going to miss either Fuji or PLM aren't full time in IMSA. This happened with Formula E too. There's so many racing series that these guys participate in it's nearly impossible to get a non-conflicting calendar or schedule in their portfolio for the year. It'd be nice to have one that doesn't have overlaps for each series, but that's seemingly impossible. Imo, F1 being the big dog is the main issue.

[chernaudi]

Well, if racing series outside of NASCAR or F1 paid some big bucks to race, we wouldn't be having this issue either IMO. Unless you have some big factory contract, these professional drivers are having to race in multiple series to make a living.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

He is just one driver, but who that driver is and what he brings in terms of eyes on is the bigger picture. Most of if not all the guys who are going to miss either Fuji or PLM aren't full time in IMSA. This happened with Formula E too. There's so many racing series that these guys participate in it's nearly impossible to get a non-conflicting calendar or schedule in their portfolio for the year. It'd be nice to have one that doesn't have overlaps for each series, but that's seemingly impossible. Imo, F1 being the big dog is the main issue.

All a matter of egos - on both sides. How difficult is it to make a phone call?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

A club event or driving school can be moved by a week or two over a year out. That is a lot simpler than moving the date of a series where participants are spending millions of dollars and have to sort out logistics of moving equipment and personnel across countries.

Not necessarily true. At most tracks, nearly every single weekend is booked up, and many clubs have other events around the time that prevent easily moving their events around. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Sure, somewhere on the calendar WILL be SOMETHING that can be traded... But they're not moving PLM to June or anything like that, they need to stick to a specific timeframe. That's where the issues come up.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Not necessarily true. At most tracks, nearly every single weekend is booked up, and many clubs have other events around the time that prevent easily moving their events around. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Sure, somewhere on the calendar WILL be SOMETHING that can be traded... But they're not moving PLM to June or anything like that, they need to stick to a specific timeframe. That's where the issues come up.

First of all, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. In no way should IMSA consider changing Petit date. And my comment was about scheduling a season to begin with. It should not be hard, over a year out, to coordinate the schedule to not clash with a relevant series. The fact that WEC has, in the past, seemingly gone out of their way to clash with IMSA events, is entirely avoidable. Unless club events are scheduled further out than major series, it shouldn't be difficult to make this happen.

But this here is a WEC problem only. If they are willing, at this late a date, to affect the logistics of their teams running million dollar budgets, the least they can do is shift it to a time that won't conflict with a major event like this. If they can't, then at least don't have nerve to ask the other series to change their plans because you are poorly managed.

I understand tracks are booked most weekends. But, if Fuji had an open date the week prior to the original date, that means there is an open date to play with at least, and potentially others. The last place to look is at IMSA to move another race date that million dollar budget teams have planned for.

Lastly, a quick look here, www.fsw.tv/en/pdf/event.pdf shows one event planned for the month of November and only two in December. Without looking at F1 calendar, I'm sure one of those weeks could work. Asking IMSA to move Petit rather than figuring out a better solution is inexcusably poor management.

Or, you know, don't change your series based on one driver. Just a thought. And I'm an Alonso fan.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

First of all, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. In no way should IMSA consider changing Petit date. And my comment was about scheduling a season to begin with. It should not be hard, over a year out, to coordinate the schedule to not clash with a relevant series. The fact that WEC has, in the past, seemingly gone out of their way to clash with IMSA events, is entirely avoidable. Unless club events are scheduled further out than major series, it shouldn't be difficult to make this happen.

But this here is a WEC problem only. If they are willing, at this late a date, to affect the logistics of their teams running million dollar budgets, the least they can do is shift it to a time that won't conflict with a major event like this. If they can't, then at least don't have nerve to ask the other series to change their plans because you are poorly managed.

I understand tracks are booked most weekends. But, if Fuji had an open date the week prior to the original date, that means there is an open date to play with at least, and potentially others. The last place to look is at IMSA to move another race date that million dollar budget teams have planned for.

Lastly, a quick look here, www.fsw.tv/en/pdf/event.pdf shows one event planned for the month of November and only two in December. Without looking at F1 calendar, I'm sure one of those weeks could work. Asking IMSA to move Petit rather than figuring out a better solution is inexcusably poor management.

Or, you know, don't change your series based on one driver. Just a thought. And I'm an Alonso fan.

Scott Atherton has for years talked about the relationship and partnership with the WEC. Since formed in fact. But the WEC can't be trusted anymore. Scott Atherton and the IMSA gang must change their tune. Show you got some ba!!$ guys down in that fancy office across the street from the Daytona Speedway.

[carbsmith]

lol. I will never get the IMSA chest beating. Since when was Scott Atherton or IMSA trust worthy?

They're not changing the date based on a single driver, they're doing it based on the demands one of their race promoters which is also the only (and long suffering) manufacturer entrant in their top category. Not much they can do but go along with it in that situation.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

lol. I will never get the IMSA chest beating. Since when was Scott Atherton or IMSA trust worthy?

They're not changing the date based on a single driver, they're doing it based on the demands one of their race promoters which is also the only (and long suffering) manufacturer entrant in their top category. Not much they can do but go along with it in that situation.

Acquiescing to a manufacturer is just another sign of poor management. How did that work out for Atherton or ALMS?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

First of all, you're looking at it from the wrong angle. In no way should IMSA consider changing Petit date. And my comment was about scheduling a season to begin with. It should not be hard, over a year out, to coordinate the schedule to not clash with a relevant series. The fact that WEC has, in the past, seemingly gone out of their way to clash with IMSA events, is entirely avoidable. Unless club events are scheduled further out than major series, it shouldn't be difficult to make this happen.

I'm not looking at it the wrong way at all. It's no different when you're scheduling them a year out - they're still scheduling around the same conflicts.

But this here is a WEC problem only. If they are willing, at this late a date, to affect the logistics of their teams running million dollar budgets, the least they can do is shift it to a time that won't conflict with a major event like this. If they can't, then at least don't have nerve to ask the other series to change their plans because you are poorly managed.

Again, the same problem applies here. First of all, the logistics argument is bunk - it's a one week shift well in advance of when the teams finalize the scheduling for getting their gear to that event. The logistics are no issue.

But the same scheduling issues I refer to with PLM apply to Fuji.

I understand tracks are booked most weekends. But, if Fuji had an open date the week prior to the original date, that means there is an open date to play with at least, and potentially others. The last place to look is at IMSA to move another race date that million dollar budget teams have planned for.

It's not only about the dates at that specific track, it's about the available dates at other venues that other groups that have to be switched around as well.

Lastly, a quick look here, www.fsw.tv/en/pdf/event.pdf shows one event planned for the month of November and only two in December. Without looking at F1 calendar, I'm sure one of those weeks could work. Asking IMSA to move Petit rather than figuring out a better solution is inexcusably poor management.

The WEC has another event in November they would likely need to move to make everything work. Guess what? That makes all this scheduling stuff at ANOTHER track an issue. Sure, December could theoretically be made to work, but that's not the best time for Fuji. Notice how low-tier the two December events are.

Or, you know, don't change your series based on one driver. Just a thought. And I'm an Alonso fan.

I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out why moving things around isn't as easy as one might think. (that said, this wasn't about a dingle driver, this about what a major promoter wanted - it just happened they wanted that one driver)

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Acquiescing to a manufacturer is just another sign of poor management. How did that work out for Atherton or ALMS?

As opposed to the great, no, INCREDIBLE management it is when you let HPD run your prototype regulation agreement with the ACO into a brick wall because they don't want to switch ECUs and allowing BMW to race GT3 cars in GTLM. Do you need a ladder to get down from that horse?

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

As opposed to the great, no, INCREDIBLE management it is when you let HPD run your prototype regulation agreement with the ACO into a brick wall because they don't want to switch ECUs and allowing BMW to race GT3 cars in GTLM. Do you need a ladder to get down from that horse?

And then I ask, how did that work out for ALMS? Nowhere did I say imsa was well run (in the past, as I do think they are doing well right now). Poor management hasn't been exclusive to one series.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

The fact that WEC has, in the past, seemingly gone out of their way to clash with IMSA events, is entirely avoidable.

An observation I made many years may have a connection here. It was during the hey day of the ALMS and ACO co-operation. The ACO was holding the pre-Le Mans testing and Road Atlanta held a test weekend 'for the others' the same weekend. At the time, it seems the ACO did not like having a competing event being held and the scheduling cooperation never seemed as smooth afterwards. Anyone notice this?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

As opposed to the great, no, INCREDIBLE management it is when you let HPD run your prototype regulation agreement with the ACO into a brick wall because they don't want to switch ECUs and allowing BMW to race GT3 cars in GTLM. Do you need a ladder to get down from that horse?

All the GTLM manufactures signed off on it.

[carbsmith]

Which doesn't change it being acquiescence to manufacturers in any sense.

[TF110]

Exactly. They did it to appease a manufacturer. WEC changed it's date of Fuji to appease a manufacturer. BMW adds another car to GTE or GTLM whatever... Changing Fuji's date adds Alonso to the World Championship possibility. Both of those bring a big following and more eyes. The other drivers being stiffed because of this will probably benefit in the long run thanks to the increased exposure Alonso is bringing. It's not all his fault and it's not like he asked for this. The WEC and Toyota need this and are doing the series as a whole a big favor. It sucks IMSA can't move their date, or F1 move their date. But in order to capitalize on this, someone had to make a move, sadly it was only the WEC and that encroaches on PLM.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

Exactly. They did it to appease a manufacturer. WEC changed it's date of Fuji to appease a manufacturer. BMW adds another car to GTE or GTLM whatever... Changing Fuji's date adds Alonso to the World Championship possibility. Both of those bring a big following and more eyes. The other drivers being stiffed because of this will probably benefit in the long run thanks to the increased exposure Alonso is bringing. It's not all his fault and it's not like he asked for this. The WEC and Toyota need this and are doing the series as a whole a big favor. It sucks IMSA can't move their date, or F1 move their date. But in order to capitalize on this, someone had to make a move, sadly it was only the WEC and that encroaches on PLM.

Is the WEC really going to loose that much exposure if Alonso only misses 1 round that is in an ACO region that no one cares about? The AsLMS has like 12 cars on the grid right now and hasn't really made any progress in 3 years.

At least BMW joining the grid didn't inconvenience like 10 of teams in both series.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Is the WEC really going to loose that much exposure if Alonso only misses 1 round that is in an ACO region that no one cares about?

The thing is that it's not just some other race. It's at Toyota's track. Literally - they own it, they promote the event. If there's one place other than Le Mans that they want their big name driver running, that's it.

If the conflict was at literally ANY event besides Fuji or Le Mans, Toyota would likely have no issue with it.

[JLGarcia]

Personally, I love the assumption that Alonso running for Toyota is going to lead to gangbuster exposure and growth for the WEC and sportscars as a whole. Yes, there will be some extra eyes, just like there were for Daytona, but the idea that Fred helping Toyota curbstomp a bunch of privateers with teething issues will generate MASSIVE GAMECHANGING GROWTH is pretty funny. I mean, we're still reeling from all the massive exposure Mark Webber gave the series, right?

Prediction: Alonzomania will peak at LeMans when his car drops out from the lead in hour 17 and by Fuji, nobody not associated with Toyota will find all of the hoopla and schedule-screwing worthwhile.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JLGarcia

Personally, I love the assumption that Alonso running for Toyota is going to lead to gangbuster exposure and growth for the WEC and sportscars as a whole. Yes, there will be some extra eyes, just like there were for Daytona, but the idea that Fred helping Toyota curbstomp a bunch of privateers with teething issues will generate MASSIVE GAMECHANGING GROWTH is pretty funny. I mean, we're still reeling from all the massive exposure Mark Webber gave the series, right?

Prediction: Alonzomania will peak at LeMans when his car drops out from the lead in hour 17 and by Fuji, nobody not associated with Toyota will find all of the hoopla and schedule-screwing worthwhile.

I think the positive exposure the series will get is going to be minimal as well. If he was coming to join Toyota while they were in a tight battle with Audi and Porsche that would be one thing, but fighting against a bunch of unproven Machinery run by privateers is hardly going to excite the non-wec racing fans.

Similarly, do you know the list of drivers who are going to be inconvenienced by the date shift?

[Coach Ep]

nm.

[MaskedRacer]

Is Ford going to use the darker red/blue livery all year long? In both WEC and IMSA?