Mazda LMP2 diesel engine

[Mike E]

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...lmp2_7750.html

Not a fan of these diesels. Too quiet. But I am a fan of more variety, so well done Mazda.

[The Badger]

No comment !!!

[broadrun96]

Could we see Dyson drop back to LMP2 with Mazda's support with this new Skyactiv, especially as almost all US Mazda ads feature something about how Skyactiv makes Mazdas better.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

especially as almost all US Mazda ads feature something about how Skyactiv makes Mazdas better.

I can personally attest to that!

Will be interesting to see a new diesel in competition. Will it have the same grunt as the Audi or Peugeot engines?

[gsmith2424]

My big question is this the same spec (or close enough) as the new Grand-Am version? If it is this will be good for reliability as they will have a few of them running.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gsmith2424

My big question is this the same spec (or close enough) as the new Grand-Am version? If it is this will be good for reliability as they will have a few of them running.

Yes it is going to be very similar to the unknown GA car.

[Cuttlefish]

Doonan just said on Eurosport that Dempsey Racing will be using this engine for 2013, starting at Sebring.

Another article:
http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...gine_7751.html

[knighty]

while I think its great to have Mazda back, I was listening about this on Eurosport and I must say alarm bells were ringing, 2.2L 4 cylinder twin turbo diesel in LMP2......in terms of power per cylinder this thing will be more highly strung than Audis LMP1 V6 turbo-diesel........Audi are rumored to be nudging 600bhp, so thats 100bhp per cylinder, and that was quite a push for Audi having stepped down from a V12 then a V10.......back in the Peugeot V12 days they had 745bhp so only 62bhp per cylinder.......if Mazda are aiming for LMP2 they must be aiming in the region of 480-500bhp, which is about 125bhp per cylinder......I'm not saying its impossible, but they are really jumping in at the deep end with that one and will hardly be making thinks easy for themselves.......that is going to be a thermal nightmare as far as the piston design is concerned, no black smoke allowed either.......best of luck!!!!........I shall watch with much interest.......dual turbo is nothing special, it sounds like great marketing but it dosent have a great deal to offer on such a low revving engine with a narrow power band........oh and standard engine castings too, man they are brave with talk like that, but I guess LMP2 rules dictate it.

[Gingers4Justice]

Please please please no! I can just about take a few diesels at the front but this is not good at all.

[gttouring]

I am hoping for a good show with it. This is neat, all this a far cry from the Taurus sport LMP that used the big caterpillar diesel, I loved the way that thing growled

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by knighty

while I think its great to have Mazda back, I was listening about this on Eurosport and I must say alarm bells were ringing, 2.2L 4 cylinder twin turbo diesel in LMP2......in terms of power per cylinder this thing will be more highly strung than Audis LMP1 V6 turbo-diesel........Audi are rumored to be nudging 600bhp, so thats 100bhp per cylinder, and that was quite a push for Audi having stepped down from a V12 then a V10.......back in the Peugeot V12 days they had 745bhp so only 62bhp per cylinder.......if Mazda are aiming for LMP2 they must be aiming in the region of 480-500bhp, which is about 125bhp per cylinder......I'm not saying its impossible, but they are really jumping in at the deep end with that one and will hardly be making thinks easy for themselves.......that is going to be a thermal nightmare as far as the piston design is concerned, no black smoke allowed either.......best of luck!!!!........I shall watch with much interest.......dual turbo is nothing special, it sounds like great marketing but it dosent have a great deal to offer on such a low revving engine with a narrow power band........oh and standard engine castings too, man they are brave with talk like that, but I guess LMP2 rules dictate it.

They also plan to race this engine in Grand Am's new GX-class, but with a target output of 400hp. Could it be that they'll go for that number in LMP racing as well and then lobby for weight breaks or try to make up for it through torque and fuel consumption?

[kober]

In the current cost-capped LMP2, what's the maximum price per engine? Or is the cost capped for the whole package?

[The Badger]

My bro has a Mazda ..... Im off out to set it alight right now !!!

[The Badger]

P2 should be open toppers ..... thats costcutting for a start , or am I missing something ?

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by The Badger

P2 should be open toppers ..... thats costcutting for a start , or am I missing something ?

I guess not if the tub can be shared between P1 and P2. Might be irrelevant in 2014 anyway.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by kober

In the current cost-capped LMP2, what's the maximum price per engine? Or is the cost capped for the whole package?

Cars without engine must be no more than € 355,000.

For engines, here's the basics...
If the engine is sold:
€ 75,000 max
€ 35,000 rebuild
30 hour engine life between rebuilds (goes to 50 hours for 2013)

If the engine is leased:
€ 1,650 per hour (30 h between rebuilds)
€ 1,150 per hour starting in 2013 (50 h between rebuilds)

If an engineer is required to run the engine management, it must be included in the prices above.
That price includes anything mechanically necessary to run the engine: all the internals, pumps, manifolds, turbos (if fitted), wiring, and part of the ECU price.

Source: 2012 FIA prototype regulations.

[The Badger]

Those kinda prices may tell with respect to reliability .

[Articus]

Please tell me Dempsey will also show up with a non-Lola chassis...

[kober]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

If the engine is sold:
€ 75,000 max
€ 35,000 rebuild
30 hour engine life between rebuilds (goes to 50 hours for 2013)

If the engine is leased:
€ 1,650 per hour (30 h between rebuilds)
€ 1,150 per hour starting in 2013 (50 h between rebuilds)

Will it be something extraordinary to built a reliable and powerful diesel engine within that money?

[gwyllion]

Like knighty, I am skeptical that they can get 450+ bhp from a 2.2 liter 4 cilinder turbo diesel engine. A 3 liter 6 cilinder engine would have been a much better starting point.

[FstrthnU]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-debrief-lm24/
Little note, Status GP is also in negotiations to run the Mazda LMP2 engine next year

[gwyllion]

Interview with Mazda Motorsports director John Doonan: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...h-john-doonan/

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Point is that Mazda P2 diesel is WAYYYY behind schedule.

in the middle of last year, I did say on this forum on another post that I highly suspect these guys from SpeedSource have bitten off far more than they can chew.......looking at the words recently coming out of this project during the Daytona test, I am suspecting a serious case of smoke and mirrors........and when you compare this to their last effort it does look like its doomed to fail, but I'm happy to be proven wrong........based on the fact they are approx 10 seconds of the front pace LMP2 cars I suspect they have a lot less than the 456bhp they are quoting.......I suspect around 350bhp........to be on the pace they will need just over 500bhp.......this is totally and completely unrealistic form a 4 cylinder 2.2 cylinder production based turbo-diesel engine, even with a huge state of tune, really I feel quite qualified to say this as some of you know what I do for a living......really they should have used a 3.0 V6 TDI base engine, and 500bhp would have been easy........really this is just a bunch of tuners with minimal Mazda involvement, despite all the stickers splashed all over the car........I dont see many Japaneese engineers in their organisation, so its not a full factory Mazda effort.........they talk the talk in the press, but I dont see any credible performance yet, and they have had PLENTY of time to prepare, this could turn into a PR nightmare for Mazda.

[truebeliever]

Originally Posted by knighty

in the middle of last year, I did say on this forum on another post that I highly suspect these guys from SpeedSource have bitten off far more than they can chew.......looking at the words recently coming out of this project during the Daytona test, I am suspecting a serious case of smoke and mirrors........and when you compare this to their last effort it does look like its doomed to fail, but I'm happy to be proven wrong........based on the fact they are approx 10 seconds of the front pace LMP2 cars I suspect they have a lot less than the 456bhp they are quoting.......I suspect around 350bhp........to be on the pace they will need just over 500bhp.......this is totally and completely unrealistic form a 4 cylinder 2.2 cylinder production based turbo-diesel engine, even with a huge state of tune, really I feel quite qualified to say this as some of you know what I do for a living......really they should have used a 3.0 V6 TDI base engine, and 500bhp would have been easy........really this is just a bunch of tuners with minimal Mazda involvement, despite all the stickers splashed all over the car........I dont see many Japaneese engineers in their organisation, so its not a full factory Mazda effort.........they talk the talk in the press, but I dont see any credible performance yet, and they have had PLENTY of time to prepare, this could turn into a PR nightmare for Mazda.

Touche my friend!

Speedsource were lucky that they stumbled into their place with the rotary GT, did a good job and one thinks now that they should have been content being at this level and stayed put.

Clearly I do not know what level of involvement Mazda actually has with the team, but your comments regards the engine probably are correct. People I know have echoed the same that the engine even in roadcar form, is nothing special whatsoever. Are Speedsource the greatest engine builders out there? Don't know that answer, but looking into the goldfish bowl several times at the track last year, it seemed obvious that there appeared to be a fairly large degree of not knowing where to turn next and a chunk of lost people wandering around.

I also read that they commented about going to Le Mans with a class winning car? Hello people, no diesels permitted in LMP2, so far as I am aware?

Anyway, good luck to them in this venture, but one wonders how long Mazda wants to be soooo far off the pace and keep paying for their performance, or lack of it?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

in the middle of last year, I did say on this forum on another post that I highly suspect these guys from SpeedSource have bitten off far more than they can chew.......looking at the words recently coming out of this project during the Daytona test, I am suspecting a serious case of smoke and mirrors........and when you compare this to their last effort it does look like its doomed to fail, but I'm happy to be proven wrong........based on the fact they are approx 10 seconds of the front pace LMP2 cars I suspect they have a lot less than the 456bhp they are quoting.......I suspect around 350bhp........to be on the pace they will need just over 500bhp.......this is totally and completely unrealistic form a 4 cylinder 2.2 cylinder production based turbo-diesel engine, even with a huge state of tune, really I feel quite qualified to say this as some of you know what I do for a living......really they should have used a 3.0 V6 TDI base engine, and 500bhp would have been easy........really this is just a bunch of tuners with minimal Mazda involvement, despite all the stickers splashed all over the car........I dont see many Japaneese engineers in their organisation, so its not a full factory Mazda effort.........they talk the talk in the press, but I dont see any credible performance yet, and they have had PLENTY of time to prepare, this could turn into a PR nightmare for Mazda.

Speedsource were able to get the motor to work in the GTX car last year. I have no idea what the power figures were, but they got the car to last for the typical 2:45 races. Heck I think one car even lasted for the 6 hours at the Glen.

I suspect you are correct knighty and they simply cant get the power they need for prototypes out of the 4 cylinder. That would explain the reliability problems they have been having. I hope they get the beast sorted enough to at least make it to the end of some of the races this season, but I don't see them as being competitive.