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Old 20 Sep 2017, 19:05 (Ref:3768854)   #301
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 19:19 (Ref:3768857)   #302
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so Porsche sold 6 mid engine 911s for next year each with list price of "991,000 Euros" according to S365....
How is that compared to the 488 GTE?
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 19:20 (Ref:3768858)   #303
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How is that compared to the 488 GTE?
I believe the 488 comes in just under €500,000. According to JMW, it's cheaper to buy a Ferrari 488 GT3 and the GTE conversion kit, than it is to buy a straight GTE car from Ferrari.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 22:47 (Ref:3772194)   #304
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From Road Atlanta Thursday Notebook:


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***The elimination of the Prototype Challenge class could see changes in performance to both GTLM and GTD cars. It’s understood IMSA has been asked by manufacturers to increase the speed differential between the two classes.

***Currently, GTD cars are roughly 10 percent slower than the FIA base homologations and BoP. However, performance levels in GTLM are already at the high end of the spectrum, slightly faster than WEC specification, which would make a significant performance increase difficult for the factory-run machines.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ro...ay-notebook-4/
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 14:07 (Ref:3772297)   #305
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"At the high end of the spectrum"??? GTLM cars have less power than GTD. Increasing the size of air restrictors would do the trick.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 14:13 (Ref:3772300)   #306
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"At the high end of the spectrum"??? GTLM cars have less power than GTD. Increasing the size of air restrictors would do the trick.
Yes, I think like you.
I hope to see GTLM with 600 HP!!!!
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 17:44 (Ref:3772328)   #307
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"At the high end of the spectrum"??? GTLM cars have less power than GTD. Increasing the size of air restrictors would do the trick.
It says performance, not power. GTLM is significantly faster in terms of performance.

Is there a source for those power levels? Everything I found on Google disagrees.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 17:49 (Ref:3772329)   #308
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Yes, I think like you.
I hope to see GTLM with 600 HP!!!!

Easily achievable for turbo cars (bmw, ferrari, ford, next vantage) with a huge fuel tank boost to keep the actual 65min window.
Corvette could achieve that too without increase displacement.

No way for porsche motor, who already struggle to hit 510hp @10000rpm
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 17:55 (Ref:3772332)   #309
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It says performance, not power. GTLM is significantly faster in terms of performance.

Is there a source for those power levels? Everything I found on Google disagrees.
nobody but teams engineers know the real power output of their cars.
In GT3, guess the less powerful car is 911 gt3r and z4 gte, that barely can develope 500hp, while the most powerful are bentley, m6 or gt-r according to bop changes. These cars should be in the 530-540hp range.
Could be interesting to speculate the torque/power level of the NSX gt3, being the road engine discreetley weak (500hp and about a flat 550Nm for most of the rpm range) while according to bop the car has basically a 2.0bar boost for the whole rpm range with a revlimit set to 7500rpm (like road car).

About GTE/GTLM, my bet:
about 500-510 for 991 RSR, in a range of 520-530 for ford, corvette, ferrari and bmw. Something more for vantage that run basically almost unrestricted.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 18:05 (Ref:3772334)   #310
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The IMSA website gives ballparks of 525-530 for the GTLM class, and 500 for GTD.

The IMSA BoP (here's a link to a random BoP table for a race this year) suggests that the Ferrari has significantly less boost in GTD format than it does GTLM. And that's the same car, with a conversion package. Also heavier.

So I'm not sure that the claim of GTD being more powerful than GTLM is true.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 18:31 (Ref:3772338)   #311
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I was thinking that GTE output was in the 475-515-hp range, while GT3 was roughly 500-560 hp. After all, with less aero, they have to make the lap times somehow, and at higher speeds, hp is a less efficient way to do it. Also, the Bentley, BMW, and Nissan must have significant output to push their substantial frontal area through the air.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3772349)   #312
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GT3 power might be more, but GTD tends to be BoP'd down slightly to avoid the GTD class running right behind GTLM. There was a point in time where the GTD Ferraris were lapping slower than the Ferrari Challenge cars.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 22:06 (Ref:3772373)   #313
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I was thinking that GTE output was in the 475-515-hp range, while GT3 was roughly 500-560 hp. After all, with less aero, they have to make the lap times somehow, and at higher speeds, hp is a less efficient way to do it. Also, the Bentley, BMW, and Nissan must have significant output to push their substantial frontal area through the air.
515hp could be the output release of gte cars like corvette, 488, ford gt and bmw. It's all about bop.
To me GT3 cars develope a gtlm comparable amount of downforce given by the size of splitter, wings and diffuser. Surely gt3 cars produce more drags pheraps.
Final power doesn't mean anything.... it's about the kind of engine.
take a bentley; bop can reduce the high end rpm turbo boost; it means that power @7000rpm may decreases from 530hp to 510hp at example. But the huge torque curve at low-mid rpm remains untouched!
the car will keep on having the same cutting edge acceleration, just will have a worse top speed.

While a car like lamborghini huracan has a low torque/high rev power NA engine. If you decrease restrictor size, the engine will develope less power at highest rpm, because engine will develope less torque at that rpm range. Considering that engine has a torque peak of about 520-530Nm at a medium-high rev (6000rpm). If you decrease restrictors size of a high rev engine, very likely you're wasting partially acceleration too.

That's why dyno engines suit better. Watch cadillac dpi.... they gave extra ballast, gave mandatory longer ratio at lowest speeds, mandatory settings for rear wing and got shorter restrictors size race by race.... car kept on ruling because bop can't kill low-mid rpm torque developed by the monster 6.2.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 22:13 (Ref:3772376)   #314
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GT3 power might be more, but GTD tends to be BoP'd down slightly to avoid the GTD class running right behind GTLM. There was a point in time where the GTD Ferraris were lapping slower than the Ferrari Challenge cars.
Trust me.... 80% of actual performance status quo between GTLM and GTD is given by bop and tires.
488 gt3 scored pole in 1.20.6, while 488 gtlm scored pole in 1.17.6.

488 gt3 is about 100kg heavier than 488 gtlm. 488 gt3 uses spec continental rubbish compound, 488 gtlm uses confidential michelin compound.
488 gt3 is also a bit less powerful than 488 gtlm, according to bop sheet pressures.

Well.... let 488 gt3 run at same weight of 488 gtlm, let the car use gt-open michelin tires and don't surprise if 488 gt3 will reveal to be faster than her big sister
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 23:19 (Ref:3772382)   #315
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The GT3 has less aero, and thus less drag, but, it's still getting close to the same top speed as the GTE, even though cornering speeds are lower.

Something there doesn't make sense. If acceleration continues, the speed necessarily must continue to rise.

Maybe the GT3 would be faster at a track like Monza, but I suspect not so much at a track like Mosport, where you need the aero for all those high-speed corners that make up such a large portion of the lap.
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Old 7 Oct 2017, 03:02 (Ref:3772404)   #316
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I guess the overall point here is that GT cars could obtain a speed of x, but only obtain a speed of y because of the regulations. We can dream of a scenario where cars go faster, but in modern racing, making a car go faster is not relavent. Making cars equal in their class is what matters. Wrong or right, that is what we have.
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Old 7 Oct 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3772432)   #317
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I guess the overall point here is that GT cars could obtain a speed of x, but only obtain a speed of y because of the regulations. We can dream of a scenario where cars go faster, but in modern racing, making a car go faster is not relavent. Making cars equal in their class is what matters. Wrong or right, that is what we have.
Considering that next year lmpc class will be finally dismissed for good and that very likely lmp2/dpi will be at least 1 second faster; it wouldn't be a complete stupid idea to give more power to gtlm at all.
600hp maybe is too much, a range of 550hp could be more reasonable.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 05:57 (Ref:3773347)   #318
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Easily achievable for turbo cars (bmw, ferrari, ford, next vantage) with a huge fuel tank boost to keep the actual 65min window.
Corvette could achieve that too without increase displacement.

No way for porsche motor, who already struggle to hit 510hp @10000rpm
Does the 991 RSR really rev to 10k?

Also, iirc Manthey came clsoe to 600 hp in their 4.3 and 4.4 variants in the 997 RSR

But I wouldn't mind seeing Porsche to switch to a twin turbo engine. Maybe even "just" the 3.0 engine from the Carrera, which is what the car is homologated on
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 07:38 (Ref:3773355)   #319
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Does the 991 RSR really rev to 10k?

Also, iirc Manthey came clsoe to 600 hp in their 4.3 and 4.4 variants in the 997 RSR

But I wouldn't mind seeing Porsche to switch to a twin turbo engine. Maybe even "just" the 3.0 engine from the Carrera, which is what the car is homologated on
according to this long telemetry on board at le mans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBhQegFhzY

the upshift is almost always at 9000rpm, but more than once the engine keeps on revving higher even further than that.
991 GT3R has a mandatory revlimit to 9500rpm too.

porsche gtlm is a mere MR car now, they can't say no more that there is no room for turbos there.
I hope they will fit the 3.8 twin turbo from the new gt2 rs
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 17:39 (Ref:3773476)   #320
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Considering that next year lmpc class will be finally dismissed for good and that very likely lmp2/dpi will be at least 1 second faster; it wouldn't be a complete stupid idea to give more power to gtlm at all.
600hp maybe is too much, a range of 550hp could be more reasonable.
Agreed more horsepower for GTLM/GTE. Nothing wrong if they run laps of 3 min 46 at Le Mans and 1 min 40 at Daytona.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 12:57 (Ref:3774661)   #321
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Auto hebdo magazine, have an interview with Pierre Fillon and talks about the future of LMP1 and the reflection of a return to prototypes aesthetically close to street hyper cars.
The cover of the magazine has a nice render of Mercedes AMG Proyect one racing in Le Mans.

https://scontent.fsst1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...9b&oe=5A8756D2
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 13:37 (Ref:3774665)   #322
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Now that I dig!

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Old 17 Oct 2017, 14:59 (Ref:3774672)   #323
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Now that I dig!
Something like this can gain traction and help bring an end of the big honking fin era.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 15:34 (Ref:3774679)   #324
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I don't think the fin will go away on prototypes. The ACO and FIA pushed for it, and with the sidepods and other bodywork being what it is on LMP cars now, teams like it for advertising purposes.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3774690)   #325
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Something like this can gain traction and help bring an end of the big honking fin era.
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I don't think the fin will go away on prototypes. The ACO and FIA pushed for it, and with the sidepods and other bodywork being what it is on LMP cars now, teams like it for advertising purposes.
The Mercedes AMG Project One has a small fin.
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/wp-con...0-1280x720.jpg
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/wp-con...-3400x1440.jpg
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...-for-the-road/
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