Lites / LMP3

[tux]

Interesting that a LMP3 Ginetta is competing in the Britcar 24 hour event.

[Deleted]

No surprising that only the two "works" Ginettas have directly been allowed to take part in the Test Day due the shortage of pit space, but the (yet not appeared) Villorba Corse has also picked up reserve spot as 65th entry
http://www.24h-lemans.com/wpphpFichi...-mans-2015.pdf

The only time of the year when you can directly compare all three LMP classes.

[Gulf]

I probably missed this but people keep saying LMP3 will race the Le Mans 24 but everything I have read says they are ELMS and AsLMS only. Can someone clear this up for me?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Gulf

I probably missed this but people keep saying LMP3 will race the Le Mans 24 but everything I have read says they are ELMS and AsLMS only. Can someone clear this up for me?

They are 100% not eglible for racing at Le Mans.

LMP3 Eglibility 2015
ELMS
AsLMS
LM Test Day
Britcar
Maybe some other club events or things like Vdev

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Chiana

They are 100% not eglible for racing at Le Mans.

LMP3 Eglibility 2015
ELMS
AsLMS
LM Test Day
Britcar
Maybe some other club events or things like Vdev

That's what I thought thank you!

[Rcz]

They'll probably eventually

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

They'll probably eventually

Don't count on it; They never ran LMPC at Le Mans, after all. If it doesn't run in WEC, it won't run at Le Mans. Since since LMP3 was designed for series that run P2 as their top class...

[Deleted]

I would actually like to see a mini LMP3 class at Le Mans, with 5 reserved entry spots (at the expense of five GTEs) and no more:

* Entry for winning ELMS P3 championship
* Entry for coming second in ELMS P3 championship
* Entry for winning AsLMS P3/CN/whatever category it is they run there
* Entry for winning USCC PC championship
* Entry for winning Petit Le Mans PC class (as side product would also bring some meaning back to the event)

Only those meeting the above criteria would be accepted and no reserve cars for no-shows so it could be a 0-5 car class.

So there'd be
A) Carrot for racing these things globally (or in the case USCC (unless they finally bury the ancient FLM09) and AsLMS CN buy new chassis in the first place))
B) Carrot for ultimately moving up to LMP2 or even LMP1 because of low amount of grid spots, and you know, wanting to have higher level of PR

Though I'd at least open up the tires.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by B96v6

I think the idea, organization and cost of the [LMP3] class will be a huge boon

But to whom? Fans, drivers, teams, race promoters? As Marshall Pruett reported earlier this year, everyone thinks differently.

Television fans want fast cars and the best drivers. Track spectators want cars that look and sound great, good drivers is a bonus.

Amateur drivers want fast and cheap cars. Team owners want cheap, reliable cars and plenty of amateur drivers that hire their services. Promoters want dozens of entries that pay to race, and/or thousands of television fans - the more money they get the better.

So, LMP3 are supposed to be very cheap and adequately fast. Track spectators may enjoy them in support races or in multiple class races. Team owners will love them if they are cheap and amateur drivers want them. Promoters are pushing them to boost fields.

Now, I think that TV fans won't care about amateurs driving 350hp sports prototypes. When they watch the Tudor Championship they want 600hp supercars driven by pros. And as far as I know, several amateurs don't want to race LMP3 cars in a Superlites support series, but in the Tudor Championship.

So what should IMSA do: hear fans and keep LMP3 away, or hear drivers and add LMP3?

The same thing should be thought in Europe. If ELMS turns into an LMP3 championship with a few GT entries, they won't get any fans. They need a proper prototype class. And the proposed LMP2 won't be that.

[Deleted]

ELMS isn't comparable as it's not catered for audiences and only some weird nerds in basements watch it. Which is partially why I keep suggesting why reintroducing LMP1 privateer there - whether there'd be one or six entries - would do no harm whatsover to anyone

The US does have a following so yes they do need to hear what people say. But these are now the same people who wanted to run slow glorified trash bins in the form Daytona Dinosaurs and other boring cars for over a decade and are continuing to want to have unfashionable solutions up there, so trusting them to listen to anyone is naive. Also, LMP3 is better alternative than LMPC in any case AND if you have low grid counts it's better to have something than nothing at all. If you cannot have P1, if you cannot have GT500 influenced machinery, and instead you have dumbed down P2 with fake bodyworks + only so many people bringing up GTs, what current other alternative is there to fill it up... no not Lites, not CNs, not Radicals, not Porsche Cups, not freaking Oreca FLM09s... yeah, P3.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Rcz

They'll probably eventually

Along the late 2000s crisis, the 24 Hours was at capacity field. Western Europe is slowly recovering. I don think that LMP3 will ever bee needed at La Sarthe.

[Rcz]

I hope you guys your right.

I'm just think p3 will cannibalize p2 sometime with this with this give everybody a medal mentally. Plus it's cheaper so there's that too.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

I'm just think p3 will cannibalize p2 sometime with this with this give everybody a medal mentally. Plus it's cheaper so there's that too.

If it's not as quick as P2, the effect will be minimal. Particularly if the class winner is always behind the GTE class winner. A lot of the guys who bring the money want to fight for the overall win, so they'll take it to P2 unless they simply don't have that kind of money to throw around.

[Deleted]

The Ginetta P3 does have endurance potential as these were just achieved by the sole entry in Britcar Silverstone, second ever event for the chassis

- Finished the 24 hours, almost 2500km
- Second position in class even if low 13th of 14 classifieds overall (due to delayed issues in garage + the other cars in class retired)
- Fastest race lap (even if in ACO-terms unimpressive time of 2:02.922)
- Pole position (even if in ACO-terms unimpressive time of 2:03.916 )
- Switch to Dunlop instead of ELMS spec-Michelin and worked fine

Hopefully more non-ACO events start accepting these.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The Ginetta P3 does have endurance potential as these were just achieved in Britcar Silverstone, second ever event for the chassis

- Finished the 24 hours, almost 2500km
- Second finishing position in class (due to delayed issues in garage)
- Fastest race lap (even if with ACO-terms unimpressive time of 2:02.922)
- Pole position (even if with ACO-terms unimpressive time of 2:03.916 )
- Switch to Dunlop instead of ELMS spec-Michelin and worked fine

It's not about what they're capable of so much as how the ACO wants to use them.

Hopefully more non-ACO events start accepting these.

I'm almost willing to bet money they'll be in the Superlights class of the Supercar Challenge next year.

[Deleted]

Of course it's mainly up to the ACO how they wish to develop the whole thing, and I mean relative performances can always be modified with BoP and stuff, but that wasn't what I referred to; LMPC cars were pretty crap when they were brought to 24 hours and other events after being designed solely for short races initially, at least this proves that P3 can survive 24 hours from the get go even if it that's not the ACO goal. And sure the Ginetta spent too much time in garage this weekend and all but it's still baby steps.

Anyway Dutch Supercar allows pretty much anything from anywhere so it's pretty easy guess...

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Chiana

not freaking Oreca FLM09s... yeah, P3.

There isn't much of an argument to replace LMPC with P3 in TUSC though. Except the chassis get old... They are already owned, they are cheap, and already reliable. The numbers have been decent as well.

[Deleted]

With that attitude the series, or whatever incarnation of it, would have still been running DPs by 2060. It goes against everything (old) ALMS standed for.

- PC is and looks extremely outdated in the light of new coupe-only LMP
- PC are 100% spec instead of 75% ish like P3
- PC doesn't have any American blood in it (except the Chevy, which could be carried over to P3 anyway), yet Riley is planning or at least hoping to do P3 chassis

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Chiana

With that attitude the series, or whatever incarnation of it, would have still been running DPs by 2060. It goes against everything (old) ALMS standed for.

The original ALMS, and what it stood for is long out the window already isn't it?



- PC is and looks extremely outdated in the light of new coupe-only LMP
- PC are 100% spec instead of 75% ish like P3

TUSC customers for this class are gentleman AM's... do you really think this matters for them?


- PC doesn't have any American blood in it (except the Chevy, which could be carried over to P3 anyway), yet Riley is planning or at least hoping to do P3 chassis

Again does this matter to the AM's, and how would TUSC get the kick backs they are currently getting in any PC sales and parts?

---------------

As a pure fan, sure I'd prefer to see P3's... but I'm not sure what it actually does for the series.

[Deleted]

It's Oreca that's getting the main cash from spare parts business, not series.

The points are not made from the owner points of view, sure, but sometimes it's time to move on.

Even the ALMS as it was in the last few years of it's life didn't accommodate ancient dinosaurs. Otherwise you would probably still had Porche RS Spyders circulating around at the end. The LMPCs were moderately up to date by time time they were introduced, and the Porsche Cuppers in GTC weren't following ten year old design spec either. By allowing FLM09 to go on forever you are basically following the ever so popular Grand-Am / IndyCar model where old low tech and cheap boring cars are put ahead of everything else.

I'm not sure how long it's good PR for Oreca either. Maybe at some stage they demand updated outlook.

[Pontlieue]

First customer for the Ligier JSP3. Good to read that LMP3 will not remain a spec class.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...s-p3-lmp3.html

[ger80]

First Ginetta LMP3 for VdeV and Dutch Supercar
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...etta-lmp3.html

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by ger80

First Ginetta LMP3 for VdeV and Dutch Supercar
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...etta-lmp3.html

Good to see. LMP3 won't be sustainable with just ELMS and AsLMS.

[joeb]

Mariantic has a link to the new Adess LMP3, it looks quite good!

http://www.adess-ag.com/

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by joeb

Mariantic has a link to the new Adess LMP3, it looks quite good!

http://www.adess-ag.com/

Yeah, it looks like they could be testing in september, and running at Estoril.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119409