Red Bull Unhappy

[broadrun96]

Wow, so by your logic he should have yelled Renault when their engines were working fine and NOT breaking?? Sorry but your anti-Red Bull fanaticism has blinded your ability to actually read the article. He clearly stated they were happy with what Renault was doing but their new unit isn't up to the standards Red Bull had come to know from them.

[Paradise City]

I think it's high time we all calmed down!!!!!!!

[Moneyseeker]

Interesting to that the rumour mill has sparked into life that Red Bull may produce a Infiniti badged engine, with some funding and tech support from Infiniti.

Auto Motor Und Sport reporting that any proposed engine could be built in Austria at AVL who are the 'world's largest independent powertrain manufacturer'

I believe that Infiniti wanted to badge the Renault F1 engines for Red Bull but was vetoed by Renault who wanted to maintain their identity. Although Infiniti has had massive exposure from F1, this doesn't neccesarily translate into sales as the name in manufacturer terms is so new and viewers don't particularly associate it with a car brand - badging the engine would clearly help this.

All rumour and should be taken as such......

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Interesting to that the rumour mill has sparked into life that Red Bull may produce a Infiniti badged engine, with some funding and tech support from Infiniti.

Yep, exact same engine, different badge, problem solved!

Maybe Ricciardo's car has an Infiniti badged engine in there?? Because he's and the other Renault engines on the grid don't seem to have many issues as Vettel's car is having. Strange.

I'll bet anything come 2015, you will still see a Renault badged engine in the RB11.

[Aysedasi]

Personally, I'm quite happy with the way things are with Red Bull right now.....

[bella]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Yep, exact same engine, different badge, problem solved!

Maybe Ricciardo's car has an Infiniti badged engine in there?? Because he's and the other Renault engines on the grid don't seem to have many issues as Vettel's car is having. Strange.

I'll bet anything come 2015, you will still see a Renault badged engine in the RB11.

it's nothing to do with the actual engine, is it? it's the other peripheral systems that aren't up to scratch and renault are still improving and figuring out. have they got the same systems and toys on more than one car yet, or are they still working on a prototype basis?

i wouldn't be surprised if red bull thought they'd be able to do much better by driving their own ship. involving a local company with a hideous amount of expertise in carlos fandango electrical stuff would be fairly sensible too.

perhaps they're going to produce an alternative system that works based around the original block (or whatever you want to call the thing that runs on petrol and goes bang), and go "look, this is how you do it" to renault, and then sell it to them on the condition they can badge theirs as an infiniti.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by bella

it's nothing to do with the actual engine, is it? it's the other peripheral systems that aren't up to scratch and renault are still improving and figuring out.

A bit of both. Renault never had their own KERS system. The KERS system used on all the Renault PU's are all supplied by Red Bull Technology, and has been so for the last few years. For 2014, Renault are using an ERS system developed in conjunction with Red Bull Technology.

The Renault ICE also has it's limitations, particularly on top end power. Which I believe Renault will fix for 2015 as they cannot for 2014. Along with Renault's top end limits, it's the Red Bull Technology ERS systems and their associated electronic control units and software that have been most troublesome.

But again, mostly on one Red Bull machine. Maybe Vettel's machine is packed much more aggressively for better balance to suit his driving style(??) Which inturn is causing issues with his car. We heard both VET and RIC told not to use the overtake button for the rest of the race in Austria. Which boils down to a ERS related software issue from my limited knowledge of how it works.

[bella]

Originally Posted by 321Go

A bit of both. Renault never had their own KERS system. The KERS system used on all the Renault PU's are all supplied by Red Bull Technology, and has been so for the last few years. For 2014, Renault are using an ERS system developed in conjunction with Red Bull Technology.

The Renault ICE also has it's limitations, particularly on top end power. Which I believe Renault will fix for 2015 as they cannot for 2014. Along with Renault's top end limits, it's the Red Bull Technology ERS systems and their associated electronic control units and software that have been most troublesome.

But again, mostly on one Red Bull machine. Maybe Vettel's machine is packed much more aggressively for better balance to suit his driving style(??) Which inturn is causing issues with his car. We heard both VET and RIC told not to use the overtake button for the rest of the race in Austria. Which boils down to a ERS related software issue from my limited knowledge of how it works.

thanks. that's really interesting. you're a far more useful poster when you actually post your personal knowledge instead of going around willy-waving about rumours you know...

from other teams aside from red bull i was rather under the impression that the stuff supplied by renault was still problematic and vettel's problems were far more typical of what the others were experiencing?

in which case, does this not all point towards just outsourcing a lot of the techno-guff that red bull technology is involved in (and not doing a great job with evidently) to avl, and having them produce the entire package?

[Sodemo]

I see there have been a few press articles regarding Newey's involvement and his apparent displeasure now that F1 has turned into a "engine formula". Well for me, this is probably the best thing to happen to F1 in ages. If we are talking about road relevance, then the engine side of things is perhaps one of the few areas of F1 research which may end up (albeit in a very watered down fashion) in road cars. I'm sure that Newey is upset that the chassis (ergo; aerodynamics) is not the all dominating factor it once was, however that has very little road relevance. Anyhow, if the chassis rules were freed up, I wouldn't want more aero, I would want to see better suspension technology, better dampers, things which might actually be of some relevance to road users. Moving away from aero is something that needs to happen sooner rather than later, in my view.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bella

thanks. that's really interesting. you're a far more useful poster when you actually post your personal knowledge instead of going around willy-waving about rumours you know...

from other teams aside from red bull i was rather under the impression that the stuff supplied by renault was still problematic and vettel's problems were far more typical of what the others were experiencing?

in which case, does this not all point towards just outsourcing a lot of the techno-guff that red bull technology is involved in (and not doing a great job with evidently) to avl, and having them produce the entire package?

What you say has merit, but unfortunately there would be some problems associated with following it up.

Teams and their power-unit providers are limited to only carrying out modifications, during at least this season and possibly next, that are purely for reliability purposes. They would have to apply to the FIA with minute details of any intended modifications, and before they are approved by the FIA, the details are forwarded to all the other teams, who then have a right of veto over the proposals if they are able to demonstrate and prove that there would be a power enhancement.

But the problem for Renault is that a lot of RBR's "disappointment" is that it is self induced, primarily because of the way that they "package" the PU's in their own cars. That is not of Renault's making, but they become an easy target for RBR's frustration, and Renault are, I would surmise, unlikely to respond along those lines. After all, the Red Bull empire are customers, and customers are always right and you don't want to upset them, and certainly not in public.

However, in RBR's specific case, and I know that I have said this before, they seem to be unable to maintain two equal cars on the grid 100% of the time. This season people joke that Vettel must have been given Webber's old car, because it always seemed that at the moment that it mattered, it was always Webber's car that suffered a malfunction, never Vettel's. And this year, it seems as though the motor-racing gods are smiling down on Ricciardo, who, comparitevely, has had few problems. And didn't Red Bull recently swap around their chassis, which didn't help Vettel yet had no effect on Ricciardo. I don't know whether this is the case, but I would have thought that the PUs would be chosen at random from a stack in the corner, and yet all the duff ones end up on just Vettel's car.

Weird or what, eh?

[BertMk2]

Of course there's always the Mercedes supply that McLaren currently use that'll be available in 2015......

[321Go]

An unhappy Red Bull Racing asked for change at Renault Sport F1. THIS is Renaults response.

Among the changes, Caterham F1's former team principle Cyril Abiteboul, has been appointed Managing Director of Renault Sport F1.