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7 Apr 2008, 01:47 (Ref:2171818) | #1 | ||
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How long til we rank the RS Spyder along side the 962 family?
The 917? The IMSA Protos, 956 and 962? Does the RS Spyder deserve ranking along side these famous cars yet?
dh |
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7 Apr 2008, 01:49 (Ref:2171820) | #2 | ||
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An outright Le Mans win would help but the chances of that are slim at the moment.
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7 Apr 2008, 05:34 (Ref:2171903) | #3 | ||
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It never will be as great as the above mentioned cars .... The rules wont stay stable enough for long enough for it to make an impact on sportscars like the 956/962 did .
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7 Apr 2008, 06:52 (Ref:2171926) | #4 | ||
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And the 956/962s were winning a multitude of overall wins, while the RS Spyders are only now occassionally achieving that.
People are moe likely to remember a race winner rather than a class winner. |
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7 Apr 2008, 07:13 (Ref:2171933) | #5 | ||
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Absolutely nothing like yet........
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7 Apr 2008, 09:52 (Ref:2172057) | #6 | ||
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Like yet ?
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7 Apr 2008, 12:35 (Ref:2172239) | #7 | |
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Not even close - not in the top class so will be looked at like the various 911 derivatives over the years, class leading but not a great!!
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7 Apr 2008, 12:51 (Ref:2172264) | #8 | |
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It never will in reality. It doesn't have the charisma of the 956/962. The 956/962 is one of the all time classics. Sure the RS Spyder is a fine racing car but it hasn't yet reached comparison with the success level of the Audi's over the years and the Audi is no 956/962.
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7 Apr 2008, 13:44 (Ref:2172335) | #9 | ||
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I'd see the RS Spyder as being the spiritual heir to the Porsche 908 - a genuinely good car and very potent in the right hands on the right track, but in terms of big classics, a touch overshadowed by the R10 (917?) and Peugeot 908 (512?)
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7 Apr 2008, 16:40 (Ref:2172461) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
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7 Apr 2008, 19:40 (Ref:2172588) | #11 | ||
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With Penske's stellar 07 ALMS season, the Spyder is already right on the heels of the 917, 962 or 935.
Beating the nominally faster opposition on a regular basis is a major feat, and however the rest of the Spyder's career will turnout with the new restrictions, the 07 season was as good as a season can be. I think the Spyder will be remembered as the car that could, but wasn't allowed to. |
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7 Apr 2008, 20:16 (Ref:2172620) | #12 | ||
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The Spyder is a great LMP2 car, but still an LMP2 car. If the rules in the ALMS were fair and square and not dictated by entertainment value, it would never stand a chance against the LMP1 cars.
So it's not in the same league as previous Porsche prototypes. If however, Porsche take this as a training tool for a 2010 P1 coupe, then that might be a totally different thing. But currently it is a car that should never be allowed to fight for the overall win. |
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7 Apr 2008, 20:22 (Ref:2172633) | #13 | |
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It will be remembered alongside cars like the Porsche 908, a giant killer that paved the way for the big banger.
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7 Apr 2008, 23:49 (Ref:2172803) | #14 | ||
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Why are the 917 and 956/962 legendary? Is it only LeMans, or is it LeMans and every other race that was on the calendar?
What is the perception of the 935? It won LeMans also in 1979, and laid waste to the other races it ran in. I personally don't have a doubt that the RS Spyder has changed the face of P2. It has proven to be an extraordinary vehicle. It has now won in private hands. In ALMS it has consistantly beaten Audi, which nobody has been able to do prior. Question also, is the Audi R8 viewed in the same light as the 917 and 956/962? If not, why not? I am actually getting the feeling that the coupe bodywork, which the older Porsche's had, helps set them apart/makes them 'special.' Is that the case? I am not at all arguing about the Porsches, I agree, they are legendary cars. The Ferrari 512 is legendary too, but far less successful. The 312 series Ferraris were very successful, but for the most part faded into history (their giving LeMans '72 to Matra, and then losing in '73 didn't help). The Matras won LeMans three years in a row, but don't have much 'legendary' status. They were the same overdogs that the 917 was, certainly in 73 and 74. Again, no argument from me, just trying to understand the 'whys.' I think the coupe bodywork really has some some effect in the equation. robert. |
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8 Apr 2008, 06:57 (Ref:2172886) | #15 | |||
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The 935, 917, 956/962 and Ferrari 512 were all built in quite high numbers and available as customer cars. Over the years many classic liverys appeared. These stick in the mind maybe and memorys are built around them and the great races that happened between the I dont think many if any Matras, 312's ever escaped the factory. You could also add the Porsche 936 and Alfa 33t. Both race winners, bit rarely seen in private hands (wkt alfa, and Joest, Kremer aside) and therefore not built in large numbers As to will the Spyder become a legend? not yet. I think it will always be a case of what might have been. Had it been a P1 and taken the fight direct to Audi and won it would be a different story IMHO. I would not compare it either to the Porsche 908, that car was a masterpiece, and my favorite of all time so i am bias! |
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8 Apr 2008, 13:08 (Ref:2173160) | #16 | ||
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It would probably be possible to come up with some sort of equation for working out what constituted a 'classic', but most of me feels that would be a fatuous exercise!
All sorts of factors come into it - in no particular order I'd see them as being:
If we think about it this goes some way to explaining why the 917 and 956/962 would score over the 936 (availability) or 908 (Le Mans win), and probably why nobody is mentioning the WSC-95 (four races do not a classic make). In short the 917 is always going to be a classic due to its intimidating nature, dominant wins, fantastic looks, and Steve McQueen. The 956/962 is up there because virtually every driver worth their salt raced one and they were absolutely everywhere. Other Porsches (and other cars too) have that to live up to. |
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8 Apr 2008, 15:24 (Ref:2173240) | #17 | |||
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No, nothing like yet........ |
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8 Apr 2008, 15:28 (Ref:2173243) | #18 | |||
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It probably doesn't apply to most here (and its a secondary argument/consideration, I guess), but from a purely aesthetic point of view, I'll happily answer 'yes' to that. For me, the open LMPs are generally so dreadfully dull..... The Bentley was a breath of fresh air a few years back, simply because it looked the part, the Peugeots now for me are just the same. The 956/962s and, even more so the 917s just looked right..... sportscar malevolence personified...... |
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8 Apr 2008, 15:35 (Ref:2173245) | #19 | |
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http://excellence-mag.com/art2/art2p1.html
Here's an article from excellence about Chris Dyson's comparison about the 962 & the 9R6... The RS Spyder has beaten the mighty R10 & has now won Sebring outright. That has to count for something...All it needs is a little luck at Le Mans and it could do the same there. And unfortunately, we'll never see it run Daytona... Let's revisit this question at the end of the LMS & ALMS season...If it manages a win at PLM & at least a podium at LM, then the Spyder has a good argument going for it. The only question is how long the RS Spyder will remain successful, because the 956/962 was dominant for more than a decade. Also, as far as modern prototypes go, I think the R8 and the RS Spyder could be remembered as the dominant prototypes.* *I say could because the Porsche is still racing. Last edited by AFC-911; 8 Apr 2008 at 15:38. |
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8 Apr 2008, 17:15 (Ref:2173312) | #20 | |||
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Let's wait to see if the car wins it's class at LeMans... |
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8 Apr 2008, 18:47 (Ref:2173370) | #21 | |||
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DK Last edited by dxk1; 8 Apr 2008 at 18:49. |
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8 Apr 2008, 19:05 (Ref:2173376) | #22 | ||
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Just to clarify, I meant Peter Revson on the last post not Brian Redman. Sorry about that.
DK |
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9 Apr 2008, 00:26 (Ref:2173533) | #23 | |||
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I have said it before, I have always liked the open cars too. The 'romanace' of racing off into the murky night fully exposed . But, I admit that was the terrain of the smaller capacity cars, the underdogs if you will, so that lent to their romance. But there is something stirring about the coupe shape........... robert |
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9 Apr 2008, 00:35 (Ref:2173537) | #24 | |||
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Coupe bodied one came third (I think) in 1972 at LeMans, long into the car's life. And, few things compare in my mind to 908/03's. There is a slight oddity to the shape that makes them compelling and loveable, and the wins in the Targa solidify their classic status. robert |
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9 Apr 2008, 04:13 (Ref:2173591) | #25 | |
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