Ferrari Are At It Again

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Great article about 'Team orders'.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php

I am getting an error message and am quite relieved in a way!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I am getting an error message and am quite relieved in a way!

I went to pitpass.com and straight to the article.
nothing has changed so the link is corrupted or the server is overloaded.!!!!

[Bononi]

Big girl's blouse and flower arranging are very fit for Teflonso indeed !

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I am getting an error message and am quite relieved in a way!

I think it's a good article, David try again mate..

[Knowlesy]

Still not working. It would appear the server has caught up with the quality of the articles.

[pannenmann]

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_f...s_art_id=41717
This one should work

[Knowlesy]

Thankyou for that.

However, I gave up halfway through page one I am afraid!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

No. There are two debates (maybe three). One about whether they broke the rule, and what the punishment should be. And a third on the validity of the rule. To cover those aspects:

They broke the rule. (see the pole)
I happen to think that the kind of rule it is has a bearing on what the punishment should be. In every day life the context of the rule/law does have a bearing on the punishment handed out.
The rule is daft and should be scrapped.

It is an interesting debate because it isn't simple.

Given that most of us agree "no team orders" is a stupid rule and that the FIA chooses to ignore imo much more serious violations of good laws (no racing in pit lane!)(Vettel launching his car over the pit entrance island at Hungary).
It would seem that Ferrari should escape penalty for allegedly violating this stupid rule - perhaps they should give Ferrari its money back and issue a clarification.

[Knowlesy]

Did you leap out of your seat, shaking your fist, when Vettel crossed the pit entry?

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by wnut

Given that most of us agree "no team orders" is a stupid rule.

Not too sure about that. At least the way it's written is vague and not doing much.

Okay, so would you be happy to have races like Germany on a regular basis where a battle is heating up and it ruined by the team choosing to let the driver past? Do you like watching that?

[Knowlesy]

It isn't really a regular thing though. It isn't like the floodgates are about to open all of a sudden. Team orders have always been around and only ever been implemented in this manner occasionally.

It really isn't a big deal!

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Okay, so would you be happy to have races like Germany on a regular basis where a battle is heating up and it ruined by the team choosing to let the driver past? Do you like watching that?

I'd prefer team orders to be done in an open and transparent fashion, rather than being lied to with those pseudo-team orders.

So yes.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I'd prefer team orders to be done in an open and transparent fashion, rather than being lied to with those pseudo-team orders.

So yes.

Me too. It happens whenever the teams want it to, and the perfidy of Jenson fuel is critical fuel is critical, or x is faster than you, or Mark turn it on economy and Seb hit the boost button, or the wheel man is battling to get the left wheel nut on etc. gets on my .....

At least we know Massa was the moral victor and he gave up a position on team orders - I am at least convinced I have seen an honest outcome and don't have to ignore the elephants sitting all over the post race interview room!

When Seb ramped over the pit entrance island I just thought, will they choose to penalise this or not? Probably not, would affect the closeness and controversy between the RBR drivers so no, and I was right.
Bearing in mind safety etc. has no bearing on stewards decisions.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Okay, so would you be happy to have races like Germany on a regular basis where a battle is heating up and it ruined by the team choosing to let the driver past? Do you like watching that?

Knowlesy is right, it wasn't that common when it was allowed (or even now, faking it). The (generally) slower driver has to be ahead of the (generally) faster one for that to happen.

I'm fine with it.

We might even (occassionally) get a race like Malaysia 1999 too.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Thankyou for that.

However, I gave up halfway through page one I am afraid!

I have to ask why, given the punchy simple-to-read style; a problem with the unpalatable truth perhaps? Or just the structured cogent argument all too much ?

[Super Hans]

I will listen to anyone arguing against the team orders rule provided you can prove you raised the issue in a forum before Hockenheim. My mail box will have a quiet time on that score.

Mike Lawrence
mike@pitpass.com

Ahem.

Think I should send this chap an email?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Ahem.

Think I should send this chap an email?

You should. He can't ignore a motorsport website like ours and you got a point...

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

I have to ask why, given the punchy simple-to-read style; a problem with the unpalatable truth perhaps? Or just the structured cogent argument all too much ?

I think the problem may have been that it was, broadly, a steaming turd. And one that won't flush the first time at that.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think the problem may have been that it was, broadly, a steaming turd. And one that won't flush the first time at that.

I fail to see how you can reach an objective view when you admit to have only read 12.5% of the article.

[Knowlesy]

15.3 actually.