Hung GP - Webber fastest laps while short shifting ?

[darcym]

re-watching the Hungarian GP and noted something that seems interesting at a geeky level.

If you have the GP recorded, watch from about lap 27 onwards.

Earlier on in the race both Webber and Vettel's in car camera shows the drivers shifting on the light blue gear change lights,

Vettel gets a drive view and Webber is pushing hard to get the lead after the pitstops. The in car camera on Webber shows the shift lights going green->red->shift, before the blue light even comes on, it's also shown again on lap 35, on all these occasions he's seen setting the fastest lap. It looks to me like he's ever so slightly short shifting.

I thought it could be the lighting angle, but the red/green lights are too clear for that, so either his dash lights failed, or he's ever so slightly short shifting and getting fastest laps.

Vettels onboard still shows green->red->blue->shift

[GTRMagic]

The maximum torque of an engine isnt necessarily at the redline of course...

[phoenix]

could be that - but it's always faster to change gear just before hitting the limiter, which halts acceleration as it is achieved by dropping sparks and/or a fuel cut which obviously involves a cut in power. When the driver is relaxed and in the groove this is far easier to achieve than when under pressure.

[RaceDataSystems]

The shift lights are probably configured differently, drivers prefer different ways of displaying information.

[tux]

Could just be he was needing to save a bit of fuel and was just driving mega laps, but it is strange he would set fastest laps whilst short shifting.

[browney]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The maximum torque of an engine isnt necessarily at the redline of course...

Yes, but the maximum power is more likely to be at higher revs and you will accelerate faster for a given speed in a lower gear closer to the max power.

Of course we have no idea what revs the lights are set to in relation to max power and revs, or if the engine was needing to be reved less for engine life or fuel savings.

[pannenmann]

Why is the highest rev value in blue anyways in all cars I can remember? I noticed this earlier on, usually it would make more sense to finish with red.

[tux]

I think its down to drive preference really but i seem to remember Anthony Davidson mentioning once that it was because blue was the most noticeable colour thats why emergency services use blue lights.

[broadrun96]

Blue is also easily distinguished by most colorblind people, since the most common color-blindness is red/green confusion due to low sensitivity.

[HughGJohnson]

Interesting observation. How much do they rely on the display anyway? Also, can't they controll the rev limiter (up to 18K, of course)? I wonder if the different light might mean a different engine setting. I didn't notice it myself, but I've seen in the past they usually shift on red. But, I've occationally seen the blue. Maybe blue is actually a late shift...


They might be trying to save the engines even the slightest bit considering their past reliability issues. Even when Webber was trying to build the gap he was on the softs and concerned with tire wear. Short shifting would also save the tires somewhat. Being a lot quicker he might sacrifice a tenth a lap for extra laps on the soft tires.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The maximum torque of an engine isnt necessarily at the redline of course...

If this is the case then it would indicate the gear ratios and shift points are wrong on the Red Bull - seems highly unlikely!
If it is the case and Red Bull pick up on it, they will be massively faster.

The Americans had a saying- "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races."

[darcym]

the colour blue in this discussion actually means, nothing, both the Redbulls have the same shift light patterns (incidentally so do McLaren/Ferrari/Force India)

Earlier in the race (and other races, I had a quick look as I was interested) Webber can be seen shifting on "blue" which is the final stage of the shift lights, throughout the race vettel can be seen shifting on blue, which suggests to me (as earlier other mentioned) Webber is doing this manually as a consious effort.

Impressive to think he is setting fastest laps while short shifting.

[old man]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Blue is also easily distinguished by most colorblind people, since the most common color-blindness is red/green confusion due to low sensitivity.

Absolutely, I have that trouble with electronic items where the display changes colour when, for example, the battery is fully charged.

[Fox89]

He was also in the fastest car on the track in clear air with an ever decreasing fuel load. Even a bit of short shifting wasn't going to slow him down to anywhere near the next fastest man, it's not surprising he was getting fastest laps at this stage, surely?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Fox89

He was also in the fastest car on the track in clear air with an ever decreasing fuel load. Even a bit of short shifting wasn't going to slow him down to anywhere near the next fastest man, it's not surprising he was getting fastest laps at this stage, surely?

Good point.

All shift light patterns mentioned above the same because McLaren supplies those teams with the steering wheels and electronics as a standard package. Spec may we suggest!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Fox89

He was also in the fastest car on the track in clear air with an ever decreasing fuel load. Even a bit of short shifting wasn't going to slow him down to anywhere near the next fastest man, it's not surprising he was getting fastest laps at this stage, surely?

Actually the next fastest man was not the person behind him in the race order but the person behind the person behind Webber.... and it was that person who set the fastest lap.
One could possibly surmise that the person in third may easily have been faster than Webber had he been able to get around the person behind Webber.
But this he was unable to do.
So the fastest person did not win and in fact it is possible the fastest person could not even race at the pace he was capable of, which of course begs the question.... The prize in a race (a contest of speed) should surely go to the fastest person.
In F1, because of some inherent deign regualtions, the fastest person is often unable to race at his quickest pace.... so is F1 actually motor racing at all?

[Wims]

They are not the same because they are supplied by McLaren. They are totally configurable and every driver has his preference. The reason why two drivers have the same configuration is simply because their preferences is the same

[RotorFan]

I'm pretty sure the steering wheels are *not* provided by mclaren, its only the ECU?

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I'm pretty sure the steering wheels are *not* provided by mclaren, its only the ECU?

I would agree with Rotor...after all, aren't RBR's completely different to everyone elses? ie, shift lights on the "dashboard," a butterfly shaped one similar to drag racing?

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Actually the next fastest man was not the person behind him in the race order but the person behind the person behind Webber.... and it was that person who set the fastest lap.
One could possibly surmise that the person in third may easily have been faster than Webber had he been able to get around the person behind Webber.
But this he was unable to do.
So the fastest person did not win and in fact it is possible the fastest person could not even race at the pace he was capable of, which of course begs the question.... The prize in a race (a contest of speed) should surely go to the fastest person.
In F1, because of some inherent deign regualtions, the fastest person is often unable to race at his quickest pace.... so is F1 actually motor racing at all?

The winner is the person who covers the distance from lights to flag in the shortest possible time, ie the one with the fastest average speed. That other thing where you just have to be fastest for seven seconds, that's drag racing.

[david5]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Actually the next fastest man was not the person behind him in the race order but the person behind the person behind Webber.... and it was that person who set the fastest lap.
One could possibly surmise that the person in third may easily have been faster than Webber had he been able to get around the person behind Webber.
But this he was unable to do.
So the fastest person did not win and in fact it is possible the fastest person could not even race at the pace he was capable of, which of course begs the question.... The prize in a race (a contest of speed) should surely go to the fastest person.
In F1, because of some inherent deign regualtions, the fastest person is often unable to race at his quickest pace.... so is F1 actually motor racing at all?

If Sebastian Vettel whines in a Forrest & no there is no one there to hear him does anyone care at all ??

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The prize in a race (a contest of speed) should surely go to the fastest person.

The prize in a race should go to the person that finishes first, not the one that drops back from the battle for 2nd place to bang out a fastest lap purely to boost his own childish ego.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The prize in a race (a contest of speed) should surely go to the fastest person.

Webber was fastest. He did the race in 1 hour 41 minutes 5.571 seconds. Everyone else was slower.

[darcym]

I think it's fair to say this topic has deviated from the discussion I intended.....

[strider]

Don't they always?