[Race] 2013 Japanese F1 GP Preview

[Aysedasi]

It's not Mark's bitter tears I'm concerned about, it's mine......

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Agreed. If Mark stayed on a two stopper he would have fallen off the cliff at the end of the stint and would have easily been in 3rd place.

Don't worry though, I'm sure Vettel will gift him a win in Brazil again this year

I don't agree with that. I think the tyres would be OK, but he would not be able to overtake Romain. That's all.



In my opinion, it's quite clear that the startegy benefited Vettel more than Webber, so I see why other posters are complaining.

But I am also convinced that it also created an opportunity for Webber to overtake Grosjean, that's why I see it as the best choice.
If the team wanted both cars in front of the Lotus it was the only way do it, as both RBRs had a huge tyre advantage after their last stop and could attack Romain one after the other instead of being both stuck behind Grosjean fighting to be second (that would be the case if Webber had done a 2 stopper)

[Aysedasi]

Well argued and I have to agree. It's a shame that logic and strategy combined to rob many of the outcome they would have preferred.

[Catingaround]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

... But the combined strategies of the two RBR cars really forced the hand of Lotus, so it was quite clever. ...

This.

I think RBR split the strategy's to cover Grosgean, and it could have gone either way for the win.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Webber thinks strategy change a mistake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24511974

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Well argued and I have to agree. It's a shame that logic and strategy combined to rob many of the outcome they would have preferred.

From a fan point of view it killed the fun, we were all hoping for some action between them after what happened in Malaysia.
Still some races to go, there is still hope

[Aysedasi]

Yep, that's what keeps me turning on my TV each time - I have to hope........

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Webber thinks strategy change a mistake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24511974

How can Webber argue with this from Horner in the article?

"Mark put Grosjean under quite a lot of pressure and went through the tyre phases very, very quickly. To the point he had run out of tyres by the time he pitted, which was too short for us in our own minds to make a two-stop really work because he'd effectively run out of tyres in that last stint.
"Sebastian went about five laps longer than we expected him to [in his second stint] and when he pitted he used those tyres incredibly well to close and pass. He then knew he was effectively racing Mark.
"Mark closed in on Grosjean pretty quickly but unfortunately he didn't go past Grosjean very quickly which killed off any chance he had to catch Vettel."

Conspiracy, I don't think so!

What is the team meant to do? Simply leave Webber on his own to call the strategies?
How do you think he'd go then?

[321Go]

From BBC Sport. Interesting read.

Red Bull's strategic thinking helps Sebastian Vettel:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24513601

[321Go]

Did anyone hear Smedley's radio to Massa? "Multifunction strategy A. Multifunction strategy A. Now please" was the call. Felipe ignored it and didn't want a bar of it!

At least Massa did what he said he would do.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

From BBC Sport. Interesting read.

Red Bull's strategic thinking helps Sebastian Vettel:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24513601

I think this says it all:

"When he did, his pace was devastating. And when he needed to overtake Grosjean quickly, that's exactly what he did."

Sadly Webber did not!

[MarkG]

It's getting tiresome reading posts from Red Bull & Vettel fanboyz. Defending "your boy" against ten-tenths posters is one thing, disputing what Garry Anderson says is something else.

Yes, Vettel is quick, but the dislike and booing of Vettel stems from Red Bull cuddling him after THAT incident in Turkey a few years ago, and the obvious favouritism ever since which has also made Vettel the annoying guy that he is.

I'm actually cheesed off with the "gritty" Aussie meekly letting it all happen.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by MarkG

It's getting tiresome reading posts from Red Bull & Vettel fanboyz. Defending "your boy" against ten-tenths posters is one thing, disputing what Garry Anderson says is something else.

But hang on a minute, some of us "fanboi's" spend so much time in front of the TV watching F1. Been watching since nappies even. Aren't we classified as experts?? And hence have the right to dispute people like Gary Anderson's opinion??

And here's Mr Andersons opinion. That guy has no clue I tells ya! Should've asked us for an expert opinion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24514661

[MarkG]

Ok, maybe I posted when in a morning grump.
I may not particularly like Red Bull, but I do admit they are the best team by far. You don't hear post-race from Red Bull, Whitmarsh type comments such as "in hindsight maybe we should have.. blah blah blah".
Red Bull know exactly what they are doing, their engineers, pit crew, strategists etc etc are brilliant, but they have been trying to kid us all that they don't have a No.1 and No.2 policy. I don't buy it.
I'd rather they told it how it is, for example, "we think Vettel had more chance of winning this race so we .. blah blah" and then I'd rather hear Webber show his annoyance, rather than be all pc about stuff.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by MarkG

It's getting tiresome reading posts from Red Bull & Vettel fanboyz. Defending "your boy" against ten-tenths posters is one thing, disputing what Garry Anderson says is something else.

Yes, Vettel is quick, but the dislike and booing of Vettel stems from Red Bull cuddling him after THAT incident in Turkey a few years ago, and the obvious favouritism ever since which has also made Vettel the annoying guy that he is.

I'm actually cheesed off with the "gritty" Aussie meekly letting it all happen.

So in your opinion the best thing the team could do on lap 25 was to keep Mark out, let Vettel close on him, and let them fight each other for second.
And then try again with whoever came on top after that to pull the same undercut move on Romain that didn't work earlier in the race ?

I may be more fair to Mark that way, we all know that. But that strategy has serious flaws :
- undercut didn't work previously, even with other teams (Ferrari tried that move on Sauber too)
- overtaking Romain while on the same tyre was unlikely, at least for Mark (he even struggled with fresh options)
- Both team mates fighting is a risky situation with those two
- that way they increase the chances of Romain winning
- a 1-2 would probably be out of reach


Yes, it benefited Vettel the most, but it also benefited the team by minimizing risks and making it easier to achieve the 1-2. And you could even argue that it also benefited Webber too, giving him a better opportunity to overtake Romain, even if the downside of that was losing the position to Seb.

My opinion may be biased, I don't know. But I think what I wrote makes sense.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

you could even argue that it also benefited Webber too, giving him a better opportunity to overtake Romain.

Yes, you ungrateful pr*#k Webber. How dare you complain about the tyre strategy, when all the team did was give you a better opportunity to practice overtaking Romain to come second!! Who dare you, Webber. It was for your own benefit.

[Marbot]

Good race, great circuit, damn internet.

[Aysedasi]

Despite my annoyance, I have to accept that RBR did what they had to do to give them the best chance of a 1-2. The fact that it enabled Vettel to swan to yet another win rankles, as I would so much have preferred to see Webber - or even more, Grosjean - win.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Yes, you ungrateful pr*#k Webber. How dare you complain about the tyre strategy, when all the team did was give you a better opportunity to practice overtaking Romain to come second!! Who dare you, Webber. It was for your own benefit.

Come on, you know better than anyone else that RBR has a traction control system and it's only on Vettel's car. There is no way Mark could overtake Romain otherwise.




Now if we can be serious for a moment, can you tell me how it was a bad strategy ?
Do you really think Webber could pass the French while defending from a much faster (fresher rubber) Vettel at the same time ?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Did anyone hear Smedley's radio to Massa? "Multifunction strategy A. Multifunction strategy A. Now please" was the call. Felipe ignored it and didn't want a bar of it!

At least Massa did what he said he would do.

He's really put himself in the shop window with his inability to follow team requests.

[Aysedasi]

But totally understandable. If I were a team manager, I'd completely understand. Let's face it, he's bowed to team orders often enough to establish loyalty, hasn't he......

[Knowlesy]

Not that often really. There have been notable incidents, but also the other way as well: I can clearly remember a frustrated Alonso trapped behind Massa in Melbourne one year and his team refusing to make a decision.

Ultimately it has been Massa's pretty poor performances that have dictated his standing in the team, so being a stroppy little sod is a bit rich.

Then again, the title is logically gone so yesterday's order was probably unnecessary.

[Aysedasi]

He's no Alonso for sure, but...... then again, we've been here before.....

[Born Racer]

What was that message from Vettel about near the end of the race? Was he warning his team not to let Webber attack. I hope not. If it was, he's a fool.

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

What was that message from Vettel about near the end of the race? Was he warning his team not to let Webber attack. I hope not. If it was, he's a fool.

Yes, that message irritated me at the time. He sounded like a spoilt kid demanding something from parents, knowing that he'll get it.