National FF1600

[Redracer77]

Would be interested in peoples views on National FF1600 which looks like it will be happening next year. Which is great news.

For years most of the regional Championships have been based around 1 or maybe 2 circuits. The ones that tried to spread the field seem to be struggling. Oulton is booming and like Diz said in another post we have over 80 drivers registered and over 50 FF1600 at every race (2 races). The regions that seem to spread to more circuits have not done as well as previous years - SOM had an okay year but was small in Oulton terms and Brands has struggled for a while. Combe is also booming and is based just at Combe.

We have to ask ourselves do people want to travel? Do FF1600 drivers race in the championship because it is close to home?

Like I said before Oulton has over 50 drivers at anyone race day but for the Festival we had only 7 drivers out of 51.... why was that?

Was it because it meant you had to take 2 days off work or was it because it was just too far? Or was it because it was too £££££. These are some questions that we need to look at?

[JR Ewing]

Spose the National Series would be great but could be very bad or even a disaster if the Regionals suffer because of it

[Redracer77]

I did the NWFF because it was local but I am willing to go to the great one off races like the Walter Hayes and the Festival as they are must do events for me. But everyone is different. Would the Walter Hayes be a good success like it is going to be if it was in the middle of the season when we all had championships to race for?

[diz]

Originally posted by Redracer57
Would be interested in peoples views on National FF1600 which looks like it will be happening next year. Which is great news.

For years most of the regional Championships have been based around 1 or maybe 2 circuits. The ones that tried to spread the field seem to be struggling. Oulton is booming and like Diz said in another post we have over 80 drivers registered and over 50 FF1600 at every race (2 races). The regions that seem to spread to more circuits have not done as well as previous years - SOM had an okay year but was small in Oulton terms and Brands has struggled for a while. Combe is also booming and is based just at Combe.

We have to ask ourselves do people want to travel? Do FF1600 drivers race in the championship because it is close to home?

Like I said before Oulton has over 50 drivers at anyone race day but for the Festival we had only 7 drivers out of 51.... why was that?

Was it because it meant you had to take 2 days off work or was it because it was just too far? Or was it because it was too £££££. These are some questions that we need to look at?

Will there be a National FF1600 Championship in 2004? Probably.
Will it be well supported?
Sad as I am to say it, probably not.

The reason why so few regional drivers venture further afield is deeper rooted than time, or money. It is just the way peoples minds work nowadays.

We keep harking back to the "good old days" when FF1600 was booming. There were three National Championships on the go and you would get two or three heats and a final at all of them on the same weekend.
The Festival was 8 heats, 4 quarters, 2 semis and a final and drivers came from all over the country to be a part of it and being a part of it was what it was all about. The majority knew that they probably wouldn't even get through their heat, but so what. They were happy just be there and they would just load up their car and settle down to a spot of spectating for the rest of the weekend. They could then look forward to Autosprout and Muttering Screws giving plenty of coverage in their Festival reports the following week. How differently is National Racing treated in the comics these days? but I digress.

Sadly the mentality of the majority of club racers has changed nowadays. They may blame money, or time, but it is dedication that is lacking. I know I will probably get a lot of flak for this from certain NW Pre87 drivers, but what the hell. Once I start ranting, I rarely know when to stop.

In days gone by, a driver would crash one weekend and before the next race would have swapped his posh road car for a banger, or van and used the money to fund the repair.

Nowadays, a driver crashes one weekend and is out for the next few rounds, because of the time and money it would take to repair the damage. When they eventually reappear, they are in a nice new road car and well tanned from a nice Carribean holiday. Priorities!!!

Sad, but true.

So National FF1600 in 2004 - I would love to see it, but fear it will be no better than Super Classic's handful of regulars travelling the UK, being augmented - and blown into the weeds - by the regional regulars at whichever circuit they landed at.

But, I'm always the optimist.

Rather than the proposed 3 stand alones at Thruxton, Combe [Christ knows why] and the Festival plus 5 regionals, why not look at the following idea.

Brands Festival meeting [not the K of K]
Thruxton,
Croft,
Snetterton
Anglesey
Kirkistown Saturday
Mondello Sunday
Cadwell Long
Silverstone

Over to you folks

Redracer57, I thought you weren't doing the WH, but running a ringer instead???

[Redracer77]

Sorry Diz I have confused you again!! Was just making a point that I want to do the other big name races (if work permits). I will not be racing in the WH this year as I will be out of the country with work. I maybe back for the Sunday so I will no doubt drive down to watch the final day on Sunday. The answer to your question about a ringer in my car, well that is a possibility but depends if the ringer does a deal for the nice green RF 90 before hand. If he doesn't race the green car then mine is available for him. As long as he keeps it in one piece as I need it for the Black Dog Day

[jadlamracing]

The 2004 format for K O K proposed by BRSCC is not perfect but it will give us the FF1600 drivers the chance to show we will travel and want a national champ.By the turnouts this year at the one off races, i think we all better get are entries in early for the stand alone races next year,Provided the dates don't clash with the regionals like some of this years events.From the drivers i have spoken to there should be a hardcore of 15,that i know off.
What i am concerned is some leading drivers do not want to include combe,what is wrong with combe? How can you not have a King Of Kents without Castle Combe, without doubt the most competitive FF1600,largest grids,largest crowds and friendly drivers.
It would be great to have a national series,which could be run without clashing with the regional dates ,but we will have to wait until 2005, if things go well this year.
We all want our own way, circuits,classes,formats, lets just get on with what is out there and make a success of it.Lets hope the dates are out early so we can all plan the season.

[Redracer77]

good words Jadlam. I would like a race at Combe!!!

Should just start with a 4 round tester Championship for 2004? I would love it to work but drivers do seem reluctant to travel from what they have comfortable with. The hardcore will travel, like you say a hardcore of 15 but it is the drivers who are maybe not as fast or the ones that can't learn a circuit quickly will be the ones that will stay local and that is fair enough.

[diz]

Jadlam "How can you not have a King Of Kents without Castle Combe"

Easy, or stick a round each in for the other 3 regionals, A Mallory for the SOM, an Oulton for the NW and a Lydden for the SFFC. Makes the National playing field a bit leveller doesn't it. Having Combe in the current plan just favours the Combe regulars, or discriminates against the rest [it depends on your point of you]

Below is the reasoning for my suggested venues

Brands Festival meeting [additional to the K of K]
Thruxton, Only one proper FF1600 race in recent history
Croft, Last FF1600 race in 2000
Snetterton, Rarely used for FF1600
Anglesey, Welsh, so fits into the National theme
Kirkistown Saturday ditto
Mondello Sunday ditto
Knockhill omitted, as no FF1600 in Scotland nowadays
Cadwell Long, Rarely used for FF1600
Silverstone. Doing the WH will be good practice

Redracer57 "Should just start with a 4 round tester Championship for 2004"
I thought that was the idea for this year's mini series

Jadlam "lets just get on with what is out there and make a success of it."
I agree, but there is no harm in healthy debate.

[Richard Young]

Kirkistown says :"Yes" !

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by diz
stick a round each in for the other 3 regionals, A Mallory for the SOM, an Oulton for the NW and a Lydden for the SFFC

Sounds the best idea perhaps, add in the Thruxton and the Silv GP nad you'd have a meaningful mini-series which numbers or people could well do without affecting the Regionals...

[spearce]

Dizzy, how many rounds are the regional champs having next year - same or fewer than this year? Just can't see many doing their local series PLUS another 8-10 races ??? How many people have got enough time/money to do nearly 20 meetings in one year !!! I think its only going to work if they cut down the number of events in the regionals (to say ~ 8 events), and have a sensible number of 'stand alones'. If these go well then more the following year.

[MikeM]

If the regional championship is doing well, as the NW is, reducing the rounds could spoil it and still not get high numbers travelling around. I think we need to build the NW series more before we change it too much.

[StephenRae]

I can't let Diz get away with the generalisation
that drivers are not as dedicated now as they used
to be. Mike Mullins has spent over £2000 on parts
this year, Mike White needs a chassis re-jig. Does
that mean that Mike M.is more dedicated than Mike W.
or perhaps their circumstances are different.
In times gone by FF1600 was THE path to F1 so it was
essential to be there.
Priorities have changed and we are now trying to hang
on to an amatuer formula

[MikeM]

You're right Stephen. We individually do what we can and hopefully enjoy it. £2K was on one accident so my annual budget is way above what I expected!

[diz]

Mike,
Please read your Private Messages and ring me asap
Diz

[ScottDay]

Prefer the Historics.

[Biggun]

What's all this about dedication - let's remember we're talking about club racing. If I could afford to race in ff1600 at all then I would jump at the chance, but I would not expect to be knocked by the 'landed gentry' of the game if I pranged it and could not afford to put it back together. It's a hobby, and an expensive one at that, so why should people be criticised for placing more important things higher in their list of financial priorities.

I find diz's attitude particularly insulting to those of us who lack the funds to go racing at all, and should like to see if his attitude would change should he cause considerable damage to his own car. Probably, methinks.

Also, what's wrong with Combe? It's pretty much the home of ff1600 these days, so to not have a proposed 'national' race there is preposterous. By the bye, in my experience of fifteen plus years of spectating at combe, it appears that the people who have been quick there are generally quick everywhere else too, so any 'home advantage' wouldn't make any difference anyway. Plus, most of the quick people in Kents seem to be people who cut teeth at Combe anyway.

[DALY]

I was not aware that Coombe was the home of FF1600. I must be missing out on something!

I must check the results of the open trophy, non Coombe races this year to see where the regulars finished.

[diz]

Partial

Originally posted by Biggun
so why should people be criticised for placing more important things higher in their list of financial priorities.

I find diz's attitude particularly insulting to those of us who lack the funds to go racing at all, and should like to see if his attitude would change should he cause considerable damage to his own car.
Also, what's wrong with Combe? It's pretty much the home of ff1600 these days, so to not have a proposed 'national' race there is preposterous. By the bye, in my experience of fifteen plus years of spectating at combe, it appears that the people who have been quick there are generally quick everywhere else too, so any 'home advantage' wouldn't make any difference anyway. Plus, most of the quick people in Kents seem to be people who cut teeth at Combe anyway.

Biggun,
1. If you read the whole of this thread and other FF1600 threads on TT you will see that I am not a driver - just an impoverished co-ordinator of the most populated regional FF1600 series [North West] - sorry Jadlam and all the Combe Forum Members for pointing this out.

2. I explain earlier that it would be fairer to have either neutral venues, or at least one venue per region within a mini National Series. The 2003 series was Brands, Silverstone GP, Thruxton and Combe. Not a good split for Midland and Northern drivers and with a definite bias towards the Combe regulars.

3. Daly's reply to your post just about covers what is wrong with Combe regulars view of their own supposed superiority in the overall FF1600 scheme of things.

4. Perhaps the most meaninful contribution on this thread is :-
Originally posted by diz
stick a round each in for the other 3 regionals, A Mallory for the SOM, an Oulton for the NW and a Lydden for the SFFC
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sounds the best idea perhaps, add in the Thruxton and the Silv GP nad you'd have a meaningful mini-series which numbers or people could well do without affecting the Regionals...

If JR Ewing agrees with me, I must be talking some sense.

5. so why should people be criticised for placing more important things higher in their list of financial priorities.
As a lot of content on TT is "tongue in cheek", please don't take it too seriously, but I am struggling to think of "more important things" than FF1600 racing.

6. I find diz's attitude particularly insulting to those of us who lack the funds to go racing at all

Sorry if you feel insulted Biggun. Take it all in good spirit, but most of all not too seriously, or to heart

[Walshy]

Diz. You whining about the old days again. You seem to mention that during the old days people would travel up and down the country to race, but you also mentioned that the racing was a weekend event or at least more than one 20 minute outing. You know I am in favour of opening our Championship up to more circuits, but I can understand the view point of a lot of fellow racers and myself when we would travel all the way down to say Silverstone for a 15 minute qualifying and a 20 minute race. With the travelling and possible Hotel fees, you are up to £500 for a weekend. That's 3 races at Oulton for anyone on a limited budget.
The WH Trophy was great and I only wish I was ready to do it. We need one of those meetings every other week. There's a thought. Never mind regional Championships. Put all the Formula Fords together in a Walter Hayes Cup type Championship. You do a different circuit every other weekend and you are gauranteed at least 2 races. Imagine, a whole weekend of Formula Fords. That would be something.

[darcym]

I don't think Combe regulars think they are better than the rest....what gave you that idea. Jadlam sang the praises of other circuits ???

All of the combe people I have raced against have been super friendly, very helpful and supportive and very fair. I would not say this differed on other tracks either. I have rarley seen a bad group of regular racers.