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Old 15 Feb 2018, 07:54 (Ref:3801467)   #4251
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
If the hot parts were to be installed, does this render them part of the numbers built?
Obviously if FISA had checked, Volvo would have claimed they were to be fitted, but none of the cars on the docks could have ever been sold in the US with the parts fitted...

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I've often wondered if the array of conspicuous switches fitted to the Nissans are still in operation today in historic racing. Of course the answer will be "no"
Wiper variable speed isn't what you'd call conspicuous but it controlled the boost.

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Thanks, I had little interest in Ovlovs and was unaware of it all.
Like dodgy homologations of the Group C era, the European politicking and cheating was a fixture of the sport, so it has to be preserved, and it has been.
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 10:39 (Ref:3801531)   #4252
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Volvo cheating the evolution build criteria is really poor form.

Meanwhile, the manufacturer that had the smallest market to sell 500 Group A homologation models to, went and did everything by the book.
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 10:52 (Ref:3801535)   #4253
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Meanwhile, the manufacturer that had the smallest market to sell 500 Group A homologation models to, went and did everything by the book.
Who do you mean by this?

I could presume Holden, who properly homologated the VK but only sold 302 VL Walkinshaws - but this was largely irrelevant at the time.
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 11:00 (Ref:3801541)   #4254
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Who do you mean by this?

I could presume Holden, who properly homologated the VK but only sold 302 VL Walkinshaws - but this was largely irrelevant at the time.
Yes, Holden; but this also represents Australia's approach as well.

Holden did negotiate with the FIA for the reduced VN homologation minimum, but that was after 1500 VK/VL's were sold (plus the 250 additional they decided to make of the EFI VL).
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 22:32 (Ref:3801697)   #4255
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Yes, Holden; but this also represents Australia's approach as well.

Holden did negotiate with the FIA for the reduced VN homologation minimum, but that was after 1500 VK/VL's were sold (plus the 250 additional they decided to make of the EFI VL).

The VN was ineligible for Group A elsewhere in the word, but this was really a mute point as Group A was already dead.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 02:58 (Ref:3801728)   #4256
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The VN was ineligible for Group A elsewhere in the word, but this was really a mute point as Group A was already dead.
Mute? Why wasn't anybody talking about the VNs?
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 06:00 (Ref:3801758)   #4257
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I could presume Holden, who properly homologated the VK but only sold 302 VL Walkinshaws - but this was largely irrelevant at the time.
The VL Walkinshaw was properly homologated, Holden built and sold over 700 of the evolution VL Walkinshaw's easily meeting the FIA criteria, it was the VN that was stopped at 302 after approval from CAMS that still kept it eligible in Australian Group A.

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Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4
Mute? Why wasn't anybody talking about the VNs?
Because by the time the VN was homologated at the beginning of 1991, the only major Championships still running Group A regulations outside of Australia were Germany and Japan. It didn't matter that the cars weren't eligible outside of Australia because no one used them.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 07:28 (Ref:3801764)   #4258
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I thought that had been known for many, many years.
I'm pretty sure it was an open secret at the time- IIRC there were references to it in ETC race reports in some of the UK/European magazines at the time- I recall an instance where TWR's Rovers had problems with the scrutineers at one ETC round and spoilers had to be swapped out for items taken from road cars the team had at the track, and the mention of this in Autosport's report included a comment something like 'but how about the Volvos- Has anyone ever seen an Evolution 240 Turbo?'

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Only between 23 and 30 Evolution models of the 240T were built and none were sold as road cars.

Basically FISA inspected the front row of cars sitting on the docks in the US, there were 497 cars there, all the rows behind had the hot parts in the boot.
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
If the hot parts were to be installed, does this render them part of the numbers built?

I've often wondered if the array of conspicuous switches fitted to the Nissans are still in operation today in historic racing. Of course the answer will be "no"
It's an old trick- IIRC Ferrari gamed the homologation rules for their GT cars in the 60's by including bare unfinished chassis and stacks of parts in the factory.

BMW played the 'bits in a box in the boot' trick with the CSL in the 70's, where as I recall the 'Batmobile' rear wing broke some aspect of German road vehicle regs, so if you bought a home-market CSL, the rear wing came flat-packed Ikea-style in a cardboard box....

The most recent that comes to mind was Alfa's original 155 in 1994, before the Supertouring rules were opened up to allow full-on wings and splitters- The race car had a splitter on the front spoiler and an elevated rear spoiler- effectively a rear wing. The road car in 'Silverstone' homologation guise came with the front splitter retracted, so you had to physically unbolt it and slide it forward, and a low rear spoiler with a set of brackets and some bolts in a bag in the boot that could be used to raise it to 'race car' height

Last edited by KA; 16 Feb 2018 at 07:44.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3802223)   #4259
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I'm pretty sure it was an open secret at the time- IIRC there were references to it in ETC race reports in some of the UK/European magazines at the time- I recall an instance where TWR's Rovers had problems with the scrutineers at one ETC round and spoilers had to be swapped out for items taken from road cars the team had at the track[/I]
Monza, IIRC. I also seem to remember that the cars went quicker with the standard rear spoilers than they had with the allegedly identical race items.

I'm not convinced anything in GrpA was ever entirely legal. Pre M3/Sierra, however, the racing was fantastic.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 03:09 (Ref:3802274)   #4260
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Interesting car has bobbed up here....

https://www.lloydsonline.com.au/LotD...=5&lid=1319321

The original Mobil Holden Dealer Team VK Commodore, the first of the Group A builds. Allegedly.. as by the wording it does not have a log book, and therefore I am guessing would be difficult to get an official certificate from CAMS to vouch for it's story ?

I recall Brock had a new VK from the Calder round in 1985, and then Harvey took over this car. I thought for some reason this car was sold to Bob Stevens in late 85 but could be wrong.

If this car was the Harvey car - could it be the runner up Bathurst 86 car ?

All speculative of course.. but interesting
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 03:38 (Ref:3802279)   #4261
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Looks like a poorly tarted-up rally car.
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 00:50 (Ref:3802504)   #4262
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Apart from the vaguely humorous comments re the Polariser, I'm concerned about the quality of the other info given the statement that it started it's life with a Chev engine.....
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 01:06 (Ref:3802505)   #4263
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Looks like a poorly tarted-up rally car.
Wasnt there a rallying fella trying to sell an HDT shell for $500k or so, a while back
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 01:40 (Ref:3802514)   #4264
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One in the same, you think?
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 01:48 (Ref:3802515)   #4265
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One in the same, you think?
Story Here

And it was $750k for the shell....
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 04:47 (Ref:3802530)   #4266
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Since when was a Group A Commodore fitted with Volvo rear brakes and a Ford 9" rear end?
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 05:39 (Ref:3802533)   #4267
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https://www.lloydsonline.com.au/LotD...62&lid=1319321

Same one?
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 05:52 (Ref:3802534)   #4268
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It would seem so. (Linked already on previous page, hence this discussion btw)
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Old 20 Feb 2018, 06:05 (Ref:3802536)   #4269
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I met Swampy once. Bought a couple of rally videos off him.
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Old 24 Feb 2018, 05:25 (Ref:3803529)   #4270
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SOLD! $68,500...

What a painful auction... squeezing $2k increments from the crowd.. wemt to an online buyer...
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Old 24 Feb 2018, 05:39 (Ref:3803530)   #4271
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Such an immaculate, clear pedigreed vehicle.
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Old 25 Feb 2018, 01:40 (Ref:3803721)   #4272
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SOLD! $68,500...

What a painful auction... squeezing $2k increments from the crowd.. wemt to an online buyer...
and someone still only bought a VK Holden
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Old 26 Feb 2018, 02:36 (Ref:3803934)   #4273
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It says sold, but did it meet the reserve?
This happens quite a lot - the car "sells" then re-appears again a few weeks or so later.
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Old 28 Feb 2018, 00:41 (Ref:3804433)   #4274
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SOLD! $68,500...

What a painful auction... squeezing $2k increments from the crowd.. wemt to an online buyer...
Quite tarted up on the exterior but really the car needs stripped and completely rebuilt. Rust is everywhere.
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Old 28 Feb 2018, 02:05 (Ref:3804441)   #4275
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Quite tarted up on the exterior but really the car needs stripped and completely rebuilt. Rust is everywhere.
Funny given the mention of the Polariser!
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