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View Poll Results: "ALL American cars are RUBBISH."
Yes they are 14 26.42%
No, of course not! 30 56.60%
I've never driven one so I wouldn't know. 9 16.98%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25 May 2003, 11:59 (Ref:609392)   #1
Hurricane
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"ALL American cars are RUBBISH."

Most of us have read that somewhat biased comment in the Corvette thread and the rather childish arguments that followed. We're all entitled to opinions (even when he's wrong! ) so what do the rest of you think based on your own experience? I'm not interested in reading the opinions of motoring hacks (unless you are one of course... )
Remember, play nicely now!
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Old 25 May 2003, 12:12 (Ref:609403)   #2
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I spent 9 months touring the USA in a Ford Festiva 10 years ago, that car was , well, sort of OK but not for that purpose! The only reason we went for that car was because my travelling companion didn't want a proper car! We tried a Fiero, the 4-cly version, but only around a car park!
Later on that tour after my friend had gone back to the UK I hired a Chevy Cavalier convertable for a few weeks, that was much more fun than the Festiva!
The only other American cars I've driven are a Buick Century Custom (a very comfortable barge with reasonable handling for it's size, an exellent comfortable tourer!) and , last month, a Ford Escape (suited our purpose,plenty of space and a fair bit of 'get up and go'.Bright yellow with darkened windows! )
I've never driven a 'Vette but I'd love to have one, maybe not the new one- probably one of the 70's versions, as long as it makes the right noises!
On the whole, America makes some great cars and some awful ones.

There's no such thing as a 'Stupid V8'


Last edited by Hurricane; 25 May 2003 at 12:13.
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Old 25 May 2003, 12:13 (Ref:609405)   #3
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I happen to enjoy american cars, The fabulous vette, the great viper, the new Mustang cobra is really a wiild one and nice road manners, even theold camarohad a cartain something. The CTS from cadillac is a winner,as is the focus. america has good car to offer, just the bias is in the **** that exists here..
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Old 25 May 2003, 12:43 (Ref:609424)   #4
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Apart from car shows etc, I've only twice seen a Viper on the road- last month in Las Vegas (while I was driving the bright yellow Escape mentioned above ) and a couple of years ago in Harrow!

Mmmmm, Viper, mmmmmm....
(dribble, drool!)

I've on;y driven two American cars, the Escape and the Buick Hurricane mentioned. Shame neither had a V8 in them!! Both of those cars are FWD with V6's. The buick was more comfortable and had better A/C (useful in Florida with a 6-month old baby (March 2002)) Th Escape was reasonably comfortable, A/C was not that good (we were based in Flagstaff for that holiday last month so A?C wasn't important) I think I prefered the Buick.
I look forward to trying more cars on future visits!!

Last edited by Bluebottle; 25 May 2003 at 12:44.
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Old 25 May 2003, 15:44 (Ref:609553)   #5
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I would not call Ford Festiva as american car, isn't that thai Mazda 121?
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Old 25 May 2003, 17:05 (Ref:609638)   #6
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Some great cars already mentioned, I like some Pontiacs too.
but how about the Ford Lightning, wow now thats cool - and fast too.
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Old 25 May 2003, 17:49 (Ref:609683)   #7
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*sigh* SO it appears I'm losing then??

1. Am I the only person who thinks the new Mustang looks just as bad as its previous incarnations??

2. "The CTS from cadillac is a winner". Of what??!!

3. "as is the focus". Now, as I've mentioned previously, the only thing the US Focus serves to show is how Ford USA are quite capable of turning one of the cars of the decade into an absolute dog's dinner.

4. "There's no such thing as a 'Stupid V8'" Yes there is. When its made from cast iron, like in the states.

5. No. I have never driven an American car. I've been in this thing called a Ford "Crown Victoria" (now now. Don't laugh). It was the size of a ocean liner, very comfortable (if rather nausiating over yumps), but a "driver's car"?? No. It was no doubt incapable of going round corners.

6. I've also been in a Lincoln "Town Car" (again, no need to snigger). Again, very comfortable, the size of a small castle, like sitting on your sofa at home. But the thing is, I'M IN A CAR, NOT A LIVING ROOM. I guarentee it ain't no BMW beater (well, may be not the squishy rubbish BMW gets away with selling in the US).

7. The question above makes me sound like I've hated ALL American cars throughout history. That's not true!! The US has of course made some of the most iconic Automotive product the world has ever seen. It's what they're building NOW that I object to. It's RUBBISH!! No wonder they don't sell it in the UK (and even in Europe it's at low volumes). The cars are too big, can't go round corners, guzzle fuel at sub-10mpg and, for the most part, were designed in a 1970's time-warp and look awful. Oh, and I'd wager 95% are ******* AUTO!!

Decent cars (with admittedly cheap plastic interiors) for getting your family from A to B in comfort - GREAT. "Driver's cars"?? Not a scooby (in every sense).
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Old 25 May 2003, 18:53 (Ref:609755)   #8
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Just so we all know, can anyone tell me which V8 blocks are cast iron and which aren't?
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Old 25 May 2003, 18:57 (Ref:609762)   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 429CJ
I would not call Ford Festiva as american car, isn't that thai Mazda 121?
Doh! You're right! I thought it looked familiar at the time, but it was a while ago!
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Old 25 May 2003, 19:27 (Ref:609802)   #10
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Many of the large V8 American cars are a thing of the past.Most are now FWD V6 . They are not driver's cars.They are meant to transport a family and all their stuff over long distances at 70 mph in relative comfort. Many of them get reasonable fuel milage.They are mass produced and built cheaply. BTW what sort of milage does Scooby WRX or EVO get ?? I bet it's less than 20 mpg . The SRT-4 Neon (210 hp 2.4 ltre 4 banger) gets 14 MPG in city driving where the Z28 Camaro (325 hp V8) gets around 20 mpg. I get almost 25 mpg in my 410 hp 5.0 V8 supercharged Mustang while highway driving. The only cars Tristan has been in is Grandpa cars.
I was given a Fiat Uno Start diesel while working in the UK . In 6 months I only drove it from and to work. Everywhere else I took the train . That Fiat was junk.

Please tell me about the latest mass produced UK "drivers cars".Are there any ??
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Old 25 May 2003, 19:49 (Ref:609827)   #11
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Oh yeah...

I also think the climate plays a role. We have extremes of temperatures from -40C to +35C . The accessories need to be bigger and stronger,bigger heater core, bigger fans for heating and cooling,bigger battery, plus heavier insulation,beefier engine components,engine block heaters,thicker paint/rust proofing (damn salt !! ) bigger starter motor for when the oil is as thick as treacle etc.
This all adds to the weight of the vehicles.

Now if all SUV's were banned, I'd be very happy
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Old 25 May 2003, 20:47 (Ref:609869)   #12
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Originally posted by fast95pony

Please tell me about the latest mass produced UK "drivers cars".Are there any ??
Can't think of any just now, unless TVR and Caterham count as 'Mass Production'.....

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Old 25 May 2003, 22:32 (Ref:609957)   #13
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"They are not driver's cars.They are meant to transport a family and all their stuff over long distances at 70 mph in relative comfort."

Over here we have cars that do BOTH!! Ford Mondeo. Is it the biggest selling car in the country?? Somewhere close. It manages both comfortably.

"Please tell me about the latest mass produced UK "drivers cars".Are there any ??"

Again, is that an argument or an observation??

"The only cars Tristan has been in is Grandpa cars."

I object!! I want a car that'll sling me up a moutain pass at physics-defying speed, not a warbling yank-tank hovercraft.

"The SRT-4 Neon (210 hp 2.4 ltre 4 banger) gets 14 MPG in city driving where the Z28 Camaro (325 hp V8) gets around 20 mpg."

Very nice. Rubbish cars both.

Top Gear tonight made me feel good

1) "ALL american cars are rubbish" observation was made on more than one occasion.

2) The Corvette was slowest over the standing quater.

3) That ridiculous made-for-American-market Z8 was dragged through the coals. Again.

See?? I AM NOT ALONE!!
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Old 26 May 2003, 00:05 (Ref:610012)   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan
See?? I AM NOT ALONE!!
Top Gear is for fruits who like paintcan-sized exhaust tips. Clearly they didn't know how to properly launch the American cars.

And Tristan, you've clearly never driven anything but the land yachts you mentioned earlier.

You, me, and a late-model musclecar. You won't be able to walk for an hour afterwards.

One point you're clearly missing. Our roads look like this:


Not this:


I'm not trying to ridicule the road system in the UK (I'll leave that to the locals), but if you haven't driven between cities here (outside of New England and New York, which are too heavily built up), you simply can't fathom the vast stretches here with nothing resembling civilization. People on a 4 to 12-hour (or more) drive here want a cushioned ride and good passing power. They don't care about handling because there are no curves!!!

Aussies and Canadians have the same roads, and not surprisingly, choose the same sorts of cars.

Last edited by Lee Janotta; 26 May 2003 at 00:08.
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Old 26 May 2003, 02:18 (Ref:610065)   #15
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Looks like a boring road in the top picture. Someone should put a railway next to it, so people don't have to face 4-12hrs of boredom - at least you can read a book on a train.
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Old 26 May 2003, 02:41 (Ref:610074)   #16
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In America, we only subsidize industries that suit the wealthy. The rail system's left to fend on it's own, which it absolutely can't do.

But cut the subsidies to the airlines? Blasphemy! How else will corporate execs hop from meeting to meeting if we don't have half-empty planes flying overhead constantly?
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Old 26 May 2003, 15:32 (Ref:610534)   #17
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Originally posted by Alfasud
Looks like a boring road in the top picture. Someone should put a railway next to it, so people don't have to face 4-12hrs of boredom.
Most assuredly there is a railway close to that road. Probably freight trains only.

Want to cure the boredom? Get one of those boats that Tristan has been in up to about 130mph and you're anything but bored, Besides, it's far safer than America's passenger trains.
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Old 26 May 2003, 16:40 (Ref:610617)   #18
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American cars can be rubbish, like that '61 Plymouth Savoy 4d I once had, on the early 90's. It had an in-line six and 3-speed manual, typical for an original finnish US-car on the 50's and 60's. That car surely had been better with the 318 V8 and button operated auto box.
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Old 26 May 2003, 17:29 (Ref:610651)   #19
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Every country has manufacturers that produce garbage.

Even Japan! (Isuzu, Subaru, MOST Nissans).

A short list:

U.K. Jaguar, Lotus...er, well, anything made in the UK is rubbish. That is, before the Germans and Americans bought most of the car companies.

France. It's all bad.

Germany. BMW. Overpriced toy.

Italy. FIAT, old Maserati.

U.S.A. ALL Chrysler. ALL GM save for full-size trucks and Corvette.

etc!
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Old 26 May 2003, 17:37 (Ref:610657)   #20
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Of course, but in the US the percentage is unusually high.

Lee: you only serve to strengthen my point. In the US, the roads are wide and straight. Cars don't need to go around corners. A car that would be utter rubbish anywhere else (save Australia) is "passable" in the US. There is no deed to develop decent cars, petrol is free, "I only stop for Alberquerque".

The US can't build cars anyone would WANT to drive, merely ones that people HAVE to drive (it's too far to walk). And that's FINE.
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Old 26 May 2003, 18:45 (Ref:610721)   #21
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So Mr Tristan,please tell us what cars we SHOULD be driving ??

Enlighten us, sir !!
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Old 26 May 2003, 19:35 (Ref:610758)   #22
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It's not a question of where you SHOULD be driving. But put it like this - your average yank won't know what the hell a "B-Road" is. And that's FINE.

But put it like this - the Chevrolet Corvette is the only car that I can think of currently produced in the USA that could be in any way shape or form be described as a "drivers car" or a "sports car". I would disagree with both those statements, but I am willing to accept that the Vette KINDA resembles a sports car. I'd call ti a "muscle car", but that's by the by.

ANYWAY. ONE car that comes last in virtually every group test in the UK ain't a great record now is it?? I'm sure it's GREAT in a straight line on a big, wide, smooth peice of tarmac that ends with the horizon. But on a "B-Road" (or an A road, for that matter), it doesn't stand a cat in hells chance. It's not a "driver's car".*

It's out of date, overweight, and thankfully NOT over here (often).


*I WOULD go on to say, with an interior and exterior like that, that the Vette ain't a great car period, but that would distract from my "driver's car" argument. Lord knows that there are some great "driver's cars" with **** interiors/exteriors (many of them Japanese).
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Old 26 May 2003, 20:27 (Ref:610801)   #23
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Originally posted by Tristan


Over here we have cars that do BOTH!! Ford Mondeo. Is it the biggest selling car in the country?? Somewhere close. It manages both comfortably.


("stop it 'bottle, he can't help it , he's only a young'un..)

Sorry, can't help it...

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Old 26 May 2003, 20:31 (Ref:610806)   #24
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Originally posted by Korr

U.K. Jaguar, Lotus...er, well, anything made in the UK is rubbish.

etc!
I feel another poll coming on.....
(don't even think about it!
...... but at least Trissy might be on my side (TVR etc, oh sorry, I forgot they's got American designed stupid V8's in them....)

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Old 26 May 2003, 20:42 (Ref:610813)   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Janotta

But cut the subsidies to the airlines? Blasphemy! How else will corporate execs hop from meeting to meeting if we don't have half-empty planes flying overhead constantly?
Soar point that one (I work for British Airways...)

Tristan, I have no problem with what you think. It's the way you state opinions as if they were solid carved-in-stone facts that I fibd irritating!

Oh, turns out the Ford Escape isn't very American either, saw one here today, it's the Maveric here!
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