suzuki swifts - Page 2

Hickey · 28 Aug 2009, 14:02 (Ref:2529928)

I would have thought that the Swift KP drove a few years back was more than 130hp (bit closer to the Div 1A 200+); cos as you say, he wasnt a million miles off.

Can anyone confirm?

daz2202 · 28 Aug 2009, 14:34 (Ref:2529944)

Where did the £12k - £14k purchase price come from. Is this an official price or has some one had an educated guess ?

If the price tag is around this figure then it certainly puts me out as I would sooner build a s/mod for less and have a good selection of entries around me to play with.

Why would you have to buy a build kit from 1 person when lots of suppliers sell all parts for these cars, I thought block exemption / monopolising was outlawed unless a patent or copyright was present.

I do hope that this does not cause the end of s/hatch. Which still is the budget entry level to rallycross.

Just my tuppence worth.

B Friendly · 28 Aug 2009, 15:35 (Ref:2529984)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickey

I would have thought that the Swift KP drove a few years back was more than 130hp (bit closer to the Div 1A 200+); cos as you say, he wasnt a million miles off.

Can anyone confirm?

The Swift that Kevin drove a few years ago was a 2.0 16v 300bhp 'special' that he borrowed from a friend so he could get some championship points!

I think that the Swift RX cup is a really good idea, as long as the price is right! Not wanting to change the direction of the thread, but the Minicross MINI is supposed to be costing about £6 - 7k ready to race, so i would have thought the Swift RX car would be about the same price! But I guess we'll find out on Monday.

Chris

leonidas · 28 Aug 2009, 16:06 (Ref:2529996)

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Friendly

I think that the Swift RX cup is a really good idea, as long as the price is right! Not wanting to change the direction of the thread, but the Minicross MINI is supposed to be costing about £6 - 7k ready to race, so i would have thought the Swift RX car would be about the same price! But I guess we'll find out on Monday.

Chris

Yes, but if it really is equivalent spec to the Suzuki Cup rally version then you won't get one for £7k. Asking price for a used rally one is usually in the £12-15k area, someone was asking £13k for a reasonably decent one a couple of weeks ago...

B Friendly · 28 Aug 2009, 16:12 (Ref:2529997)

But what what are they removing from the rally version? The rally Swift weighs 950kg's and the RX version is supposed the weigh in at 750kg's, thats a lot of weight to take off. Light's, replacing windows with polycarb....... what else could be removed that would offset the price of an RX Swift, compared to a Rally Swift?

WJM · 28 Aug 2009, 17:55 (Ref:2530047)

How many rallycross classes/championships will be in Britain next year? 20? 30? What will be the average carcount in each class? I bet not one will get an average of more than 10. If you want a class between stockhatch and Supermod, there is always Div 1a.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Friendly

But what what are they removing from the rally version? The rally Swift weighs 950kg's and the RX version is supposed the weigh in at 750kg's, thats a lot of weight to take off. Light's, replacing windows with polycarb....... what else could be removed that would offset the price of an RX Swift, compared to a Rally Swift?

Extra seat with belts, spare wheel plus tools, smaller fuel tank, co-driver.

B Friendly · 28 Aug 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2530070)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJM

How many rallycross classes/championships will be in Britain next year? 20? 30? What will be the average carcount in each class? I bet not one will get an average of more than 10. If you want a class between stockhatch and Supermod, there is always Div 1a.

Extra seat with belts, spare wheel plus tools, smaller fuel tank, co-driver.

Thanks for that, i had a mental block! Thats what being at work does to you!

Barrie · 30 Aug 2009, 09:06 (Ref:2530902)

Like someones mentioned before, would imagine they ve done there home work on this one. If you look back at the Nova Challenge series that was started during an economic downturn, they had bumper grids of new names and teams, plus older name returnees like Mick Bird. I can recall quite a few rally drives switched to the Nova Challenge due to the reduced costs, including my dads friend Brian Wiggins. See what happens, hopefully the Swift series will work.

SPECTATORSAL · 31 Aug 2009, 16:41 (Ref:2531942)

Personally I hope it really takes off as I've just bought a late 2005 (new shape) Suzuki Swift & I'm looking forward to watching them out on track!! Andrew Jordan did really well this afternoon by the way - things can only get better with more mods etc!

Sal

PS. I used to own a Nova some time ago too!!

MESHGA · 31 Aug 2009, 16:47 (Ref:2531946)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPECTATORSAL

Personally I hope it really takes off as I've just bought a late 2005 (new shape) Suzuki Swift & I'm looking forward to watching them out on track!! Andrew Jordan did really well this afternoon by the way - things can only get better with more mods etc!

Sal

PS. I used to own a Nova some time ago too!!

well SAL i hope they do too but if we go on the same track as peeps do with group Bs im in the 205 /106/saxo CAMP!
Did any1 get the regs for this 1 make series today?
do you have to buy a car or prep to regs?
Dont get me wrong but swift looked so clumsy against the normal (racers)
does anybody know what the weight of the swift Andrew was driving today?

daz2202 · 31 Aug 2009, 19:38 (Ref:2532048)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MESHGA

does anybody know what the weight of the swift Andrew was driving today?

Spoke to AJ and he said there is a good 100kg to lose, he also said handing was great and they are good fun.

After having a good nose about and watching it on track, I reckon they will make excellent arrive and drive cars, proberly will be booked by company directors that have a few bob of promotional funds to spend to entertain clients. I think they will be to dear for the stockhatch driver to jump into and not quick enough for mod drivers to step back to.

Maybe a good step for juniors though that have a few pennies to spend!

MESHGA · 31 Aug 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2532052)

ok with 100 kg off (what was the kg then?)will only be as quick as you guys then Daz! you said that the other day on blower!!!!

so did you get low down on price /spec and all that?

daz2202 · 31 Aug 2009, 19:48 (Ref:2532058)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MESHGA

so did you get low down on price /spec and all that?

nope had a look, thought too posh for an old banger driver like me so carried on my day in the sun watching some top class driving in all classes.

MESHGA · 31 Aug 2009, 19:53 (Ref:2532062)

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz2202

nope had a look, thought too posh for an old banger driver like me so carried on my day in the sun watching some top class driving in all classes.

You put your self down Mate!! From where i was sitting you win was good!!!

Lynchy was fast today by the way!

schanche · 31 Aug 2009, 20:09 (Ref:2532083)

When you consider How many races the swift with AJ took part in to day you cant fault reliability of the car.In AJ's hands it proved quite a capable car if there is more weight to come off then I think it could be a winner!
Worst of it is Andrew performed brilliant didnt put a foot wrong today and we went and lost him to ****ty touring cars! Would of been a BRC Champion and no doubt up the top in Europe

MESHGA · 31 Aug 2009, 20:21 (Ref:2532091)

Quote:

Originally Posted by schanche

When you consider How many races the swift with AJ took part in to day you cant fault reliability of the car.In AJ's hands it proved quite a capable car if there is more weight to come off then I think it could be a winner!
Worst of it is Andrew performed brilliant didnt put a foot wrong today and we went and lost him to ****ty touring cars! Would of been a BRC Champion and no doubt up the top in Europe

Andrews a good driver ! Difference between staying in RX and Touring Cars he now get paid to drive!!! What would you do?
I hope the swift did keep going its not far of new and being preped by Jess's family would expect and different!

Cujo · 31 Aug 2009, 21:08 (Ref:2532130)

I had a chat with the PGM team today regarding the swift, this is what they told me.

A brief overview is that the Swiftsport Rallycross Championship will be based upon near standard Suzuki Swift Sport 1.6 cars and seems to be aimed at newcomers, and arrive and drive customers in particular.

They will be selling a conversion kit for circa £8K or can build and run cars to suit. The figure of £20K for the season was mentioned, it was not clear if this included keeping the car.

They were not able to say exactly what the kit would comprise of as the spec (dampers, brakes etc) is not finalised yet. The car that Andrew Jordan raced today was a rally car, PGM said that the RX versions will have plastic windows and potentially composite panels to bring the weight down. Engine and transmission will be standard (and sealed) with the exception of a LSD. Tyres will be Toyo 888's, 6 will be allocated per meeting. Only cars with kits bought from PGM can compete.

The cheapest road cars look like being £7.5K, add the kit and you won't get much change out of £16K.

There is a website, but the count-down timer keeps resetting itself, so I am guessing that it's not ready yet.

http://www.petergwynne.com/

RICKY_BOBBY · 1 Sep 2009, 11:04 (Ref:2532399)

I tried to speak to the pgm team about it and i was told that i would expect to pay £8.5k for the kit and approx £8.5k for a donor car i think this means there not aiming it at stock hatch competitors!!! and cant really see any super mod drivers taking that kind of a step back as i would of thought andrews driving talent more than makes up for 100kgs i am personnally disapointed about it all after being quite excited about it last week, but hope it will bring some new faces to the sport.

MESHGA · 1 Sep 2009, 12:28 (Ref:2532445)

Quite a surprise using Toyos ! thought would of been Kuhmo shod?

I think it was Rich who said a s/h or maybe right off base car can be purchased for about 5-6k so with the kit costing 8k ,14k which i did say before! for a self build is quite costly and very iffy as you dont know how many are going to be raced??
How about this?? "pay an ammount per race to youve paid for the kit " could be a good idea! Has anybody some ideas?
Also a buy it back deal could be very sweetener !

Hickey · 1 Sep 2009, 13:46 (Ref:2532490)

I think that is the problem. AJ showed his class by not putting a foot wrong. He hooked every corner up and just picked up the pieces when someone made a slight mistake, he was down on power to most of the stock hatch class, and this is meant to be a bridge between stocks and mods! Someone else in that car would be circuiting a fair way down the field. Even with 100kg less I fail to see this taking off, which is a real shame as a Div 1a-style affordable class would have been exactly what the BRC needed (see previous posts; I was optimistic!)

One thing it did prove this week was this - let's assume that AJ pumped in consistent times. He was third consistently in the Stock Hatch and not last in the BTRDA Supermods (beating Tina, sometimes Dave Ewin [I think, sorry if not!!] and someone else whose name escapes me). Therefore, the likes of Lynchy and Lawford would have come about 1 or 2 places better (maybe beating the black Beamer) in the BTRDA supermods. So, the question is: do we really need a class between stock hatch and supermod when we have the BTRDA? Certainly not at £14-20k I wouldnt have thought!

leonidas · 1 Sep 2009, 17:03 (Ref:2532599)

I appreciate that the Swift might appeal to half a dozen corporate clients, but is appealing to this group really the future for rallycross?? In any case wouldn't they be more interested in driving a scooby or an evo rather than a 'shopping trolly'? You've only got to look at the number of specialists magazines that scoobies and evos shift and the number of clubs to know that these cars have a real following - and these guys are a natural market for rallycross. They'll stick around long after the corporate clients have moved onto the next thing that happens to be free.

MESHGA · 1 Sep 2009, 17:45 (Ref:2532616)

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonidas

I appreciate that the Swift might appeal to half a dozen corporate clients, but is appealing to this group really the future for rallycross?? In any case wouldn't they be more interested in driving a scooby or an evo rather than a 'shopping trolly'? You've only got to look at the number of specialists magazines that scoobies and evos shift and the number of clubs to know that these cars have a real following - and these guys are a natural market for rallycross. They'll stick around long after the corporate clients have moved onto the next thing that happens to be free.

I agree with you there and concidering the lydden involvement with the car show and drifting sceen it hasnt dawned on "them" !!!!!!
Best not SHOUT to loud it might give "them" to many ideas!!!!
If the scooby thing did happen ! god only knows how much that"kit" would be to buy!!!!

rallycrosscraig · 1 Sep 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2532652)

Its not as if there is much money sloshing around at the moment, so for a new class to replace stock hatch, but its costs 5 times as much just to get started - surely that is wishfull thinking?

i think in general rallycross classes tend to offer a cheaper alternative than circuit racing (for similar classes) so if the swift costs £15k to get going the alternatives are too many/ and more attractive per ££. (plus in rallyX cars tend to have a short life & lots of damage so if you are just starting out you dont want an expensive car? Or do you?

**silver bullet** · 2 Sep 2009, 08:43 (Ref:2532957)

There are a lot of interesting points of view in this thread, here are mine.

At first I did not think that another class was needed in rallycross, but after some thought I have changed my mind, and maybe a well run well promoted one make series might just work.

People have said why do the Swifts when they are no quicker than a well sorted Stockhatch. This may be true at the moment, but let's not forget that this was the first foray onto a rallycross circuit with this car. There is a lot of room for improvement and a LOT of weight to be lost. I think it would not be too difficult to loose at least 150-200 kilos, and on a 1600cc car this will make a significant difference.
I had some great races with Andrew all day, and yes he did beat me once. My car cost less than £2000 to build and the Swift is predicted to cost between £16000 - £20000, so yes I do agree that it needs to be made a bit quicker, but after having spoken to Andrew & BGM I'm certain that this will be done.
Having said that rallycross does not all have to be about speed, it's surely more about racing. After all the Swifts will not be racing against the Supermods, or even the Stockhatches, they will be racing against other equally matched Suzuki Swifts, so they will be fun to race and should be exciting to watch.

A budget 4WD class has been mentioned in previous posts, but this has idea has been aired before with the Evo challenge and no interest was shown, either from people already involved in the sport or people new to rallycross.
I think where the Suzuki's may succeed in doing this is, the series is not just aimed at one particular group but at several. The Vauxhall Nova Challenge was extremely successful and it managed to get drivers from other classes into it's ranks, along with people new to the sport, and occasional celebrities.
With the right promotion there is no reason why the Swifts can not do this also.

**BertMk2** · 2 Sep 2009, 20:17 (Ref:2533357)

Ok - I've split off all the talk of a budget 4wd class, BMWs etc etc into a new thread here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118096

Can we keep this one to the Swifts please

(and if anyone spots any posts that look like they're in the wrong thread drop me a PM

)

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