We would have the title already - Ferrari

[manwell]

I dont get why peole have been saying, including Ferrari Team Principal Stefano Domenicali, that if Ferrari had have had the car/advantage that RBR have then they would have won the title already.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/164735/...ready_won.html
How can you say that?
Well if RBR had Mercedes engines instead of Renaults which are lower on power and less reliable (2 almost certain wins lost due to engine issues in Bahrain and Korea) then Vettel would probably have wrapped up the championship by now as well as he was leading on both occasions when he had engine dramas. Add 50points to his tally and see how the championship looks.
How would Fernando have gone with the Renault powerplants.
Its not like RBR have done a terrible job.
Yes they have a great car, but certainly not the most powerful or reliable due to engine and mechanical failures.
There are so may ifs and buts, why even bother making comments like that.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Just stupid.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. This is such rubbish. (directed toward Mr Dominicalli, not you :P )

It's like the whole "these next races are the most important of the season". Not really... The whole season is. You can have an awesome start then a crappy finish and still win it (just look at last year. Ok 'crappy' isn't the right word, but they did their winning sooner as oppose to later).

Selby

[Ralf's Girl]

I think different DRIVERS might have sewn up both titles already for Red Bull, because their drivers have certainly been guilty of failing to capitalise on the huge advantage they've had on particular tracks, by crashing into each other/rivals/walls. I don't think an Alonso or a Hamilton would be in the position that Webber and Vettel are in with such superior machinery.

But we kind of already know that Ferrari can seal a title early when they have a huge car advantage - we've see them do it. Maybe to some extent Red Bull's lack of experience in this sort of situation is showing. Domenicali's comments are irrelevant though; the championship is what it is, so saying "If our car was better..." is pointless.

[Wims]

Well, its just mind games. Its not pointless. Its F1

[chillibowl]

the article just struck me as a Ferrari jab at their rivals in much the same way Horner is hitting back with the illegal team orders against Alonso. just mind games and a little fodder for the forums to have fun with.

Ferrari are telling the world that RB blew the championship and RB are claiming Ferrari has stolen it....two races to go and i hope we see a lot more of this back and forth.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Wims

Well, its just mind games. Its not pointless. Its F1

Not particularly good mind games, though, unless Red Bull are really easily rattled. The obvious response is "You might have already won the title if your car was better, but it wasn't, so you haven't".

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I don't think an Alonso or a Hamilton would be in the position that Webber and Vettel are in with such superior machinery.

Hamilton has managed to crash into as many drivers (Massa and Webber) as Vettel (Webber and Button) and Webber (Hamilton and Kovalinen) have, so that one goes out of the window. The only ones (of the top 5) who haven't crashed into anyone, iirc, are Alonso and Button, So Stefano has a point on that one, although Ferrari have to look at themselves for their engine problems and Alonso did crash on his own in saturday free practice which killed his Monaco race. McLaren could say that had Jenson been quicker he'd have wrapped up the title and Vettels reliability is a definate from Red Bulls point of view and Webber took himself out at Korea.

Fact is, all driver or teams or driver teams combo have made mistakes and they are in the position they are in now.

[Born Racer]

Domenicali's probably right but:

The obvious response is "You might have already won the title if your car was better, but it wasn't, so you haven't".

Ferrari are so self-righteous.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Hamilton has managed to crash into as many drivers (Massa and Webber) as Vettel (Webber and Button) and Webber (Hamilton and Kovalinen) have, so that one goes out of the window. The only ones (of the top 5) who haven't crashed into anyone, iirc, are Alonso and Button

Alonso dropped it on his own in Spa which is even worse than crashing into someone else.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Hamilton has managed to crash into as many drivers (Massa and Webber) as Vettel (Webber and Button) and Webber (Hamilton and Kovalinen) have, so that one goes out of the window.

I think the difference is that if you put Hamilton in that car he would just drive away and win races rather than getting himself tangled up in stupid accidents with his team-mate/backmarkers. Hamilton has made errors in trying to compensate for his car's relative lack of pace - he's been relying on guts and racing instinct to beat his rivals and it hasn't always worked. Come the end of the season there's a good chance that Vettel and Webber will look back on races like Turkey, Valencia, Belgium and Korea and wonder how they managed to throw it away.

[Born Racer]

Yes, although Lewis has to take a fair amount of the blame for his botched manoeuvres, I wonder just how annoying it must be for him now to realise that coming into Monza he was in a great position! There was no need to attack the Ferraris like that. Singapore was more 50-50 although he still turned across too early.

What I mean though is upon seeing Webber's accident in Korea, he must've thought a bit more patience could have meant he was still the leader.

Still, I had a great time at Spa. I seemed one of the few people happy when Hamilton won though. There were a lot of miserable Belgians with Ferrari caps.

[steve_r]

Ferrari are spot on, and it is not often I say that. RBR have had the fastest car all season, but for various reasons to do with the drivers, the car and the race strategy RBR have thrown away loads of points through the year. After locking out the front row so many times, the question in my mind before most races is - how are RBR going to shoot themselves in the foot this time?

One can only hope for their sake that they learn from this for future seasons, but F1 would be very boring if the fastest car alway won...

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Yes, although Lewis has to take a fair amount of the blame for his botched manoeuvres, I wonder just how annoying it must be for him now to realise that coming into Monza he was in a great position! There was no need to attack the Ferraris like that. Singapore was more 50-50 although he still turned across too early.

He's good, but as far as I know he is not able to see in to the future.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Still, I had a great time at Spa. I seemed one of the few people happy when Hamilton won though. There were a lot of miserable Belgians with Ferrari caps.

Well, they do live in Belgium. That can't help.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by JamesH

He's good, but as far as I know he is not able to see in to the future.

But he must now realise that he could have tempered his attack, but you know what? Maybe he only thinks about it a bit because he is a racer and at least he has a go. There is too much emphasis on championships. Particularly when teams like Ferrari think that the drivers' championship is so important it must be won by two drivers pretending they're one!

Originally Posted by JamesH

He's good, but as far as I know he is not able to see in to the future.



Well, they do live in Belgium. That can't help.

Good ale and chocolate, a fine race circuit but weather that makes me wonder why people pick England as the famous rainy country of choice. And I'm talking about Brussels, not just the Ardennes.

[E.B]

.... and of course, in past years, incompetence and stupidity have never lost Ferrari championships?

Massa at Singapore in 2008 was derailed in his quest for and lost the WDC as a result of Ferrari incompetence of a level rarely seen anywhere.


Plus they had a habit of putting dry tyres on cars that pitted as it was raining, and even putting wets on cars in the dry......

Pot kettle black are words that are in mty head.
Or people in glass houses..........

Ferrari trying to play mind games. Badly.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

After locking out the front row so many times, the question in my mind before most races is - how are RBR going to shoot themselves in the foot this time?

Same for me - I no longer go into races expecting Red Bull to win. Qualify on pole with the other car 2nd or 3rd, yes, but not win. My default position is to assume that there will be a cock-up/car failure/accident somewhere along the way.

[Born Racer]

Yeah, Ferrari probably aren't wrong about this at all. This has not been a great season for Red Bull despite their car.

[BMW_F1]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the article just struck me as a Ferrari jab at their rivals in much the same way Horner is hitting back with the illegal team orders against Alonso. just mind games and a little fodder for the forums to have fun with.
.

That is all there is to this..

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by E.B

.... and of course, in past years, incompetence and stupidity have never lost Ferrari championships?

Massa at Singapore in 2008 was derailed in his quest for and lost the WDC as a result of Ferrari incompetence of a level rarely seen anywhere.

Irvines botched pitstop at Nurburgring 1999 also springs to mind.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Irvines botched pitstop at Nurburgring 1999 also springs to mind.

I remember laughing my ass off at that!

"Get the tyre, GET THE TYRE!"
"Hold on, let's have some cappuccino first and then have a board meeting with Luca di Montezemolo about which tyre we're going to put on."

[safc_fan89]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Alonso dropped it on his own in Spa which is even worse than crashing into someone else.

In that race Alonso lost 4 points. Vettel lost at least 15. So in this case, or any case, not really! That's a completely pointless thing to say.

[safc_fan89]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Same for me - I no longer go into races expecting Red Bull to win. Qualify on pole with the other car 2nd or 3rd, yes, but not win. My default position is to assume that there will be a cock-up/car failure/accident somewhere along the way.

Alonso's assumptions as well. It's pretty obvious that's what he meant when he said he just needed to finish on the podium every round. He'll just wait for Red Bull to mess things up, because it's what they are best at.

Alonso has gained 3 wins (in my opinion) this season because of Red Bull. Two Vettel DNFs and Singapore when Vettel pointlessly followed Alonso into the pits. I'm not surprising he was laughing hysterically after winning the last race, it was just so predictable!

[Born Racer]

What I meant was at least Hamilton crashed trying to have a battle with someone rather than just dropping it with no help from anyone else. It's not an exact science of a comment, but it has a little bit of merit.

[Knowlesy]

Clearly if you gave Alonso or Hamilton a car as dominant as the Red Bull they would walk it. What Ferrari are saying is not without merit. Didn't need to be said probably, but still...

[mac]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I think the difference is that if you put Hamilton in that car he would just drive away and win races rather than getting himself tangled up in stupid accidents with his team-mate/backmarkers.

Well, Button has usually been so far off Hamilton's pace that this would probably happen... The problem for Red Bull is that their drivers are so close in terms of performance. If they have not been crashing into each other, or arguing over front wings, they have been taking points off each other... Something Hamilton (with Button) would not have to deal with.

And definitely something that Alonso does not have to deal with. Red Bull have (allegedly) tried to do the right thing all year by (perceivably) giving both drivers equal treatment - and thereby allowing them to race and take points off each other...

We all know that this would not happen at Ferrari because one side of the garage gets extraordinarily preferential treatment - to the point where his team mate will pull over for a latte and let him through for maximum points. It all depends on how the punters prefer the teams go racing...