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9 Dec 2002, 13:22 (Ref:446271)
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9
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Unknown pilots with talent!!!
Always have pilots with talent, but they dont appear like others, because the money...jaime melo is one of this pilots, they now is the champion of euro3000 series, but they never appear in tv here in Brasil, bernoldi was a great pilot too, but only appear pilots like zonta, pizzonia, and others that dont have a talent, only have money. As i like races too much, and all of you too, and i know that happens in other cowntries too...see justin wilson, bas leinders, bourdais, others pilots from CART series...i simple don't believe in great pilots anymore, like senna, piquet and fittipaldi from Brasil, jack stewart, keke Rosberg, alain prost, villeneuve, lauda, and others great pilots, that only had talent, they don't deppends of money to race. tahnx...if you agree with me...write here, and excuse for my bad english...
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9 Dec 2002, 14:10 (Ref:446300)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,027
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Re: Unknown pilots with talent!!!
Are you saying that Zonta and Pizzonia are bad drivers?
 It's the first time I hear someone saying that...
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9 Dec 2002, 14:13 (Ref:446302)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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Dont give up on great piolets, they are still out there just as before. Its just a lot harder to get into F1 now compared to what it was in the late 80s early 90s.
The drivers are still out there and they are still making it, Rakionen for example, Webber, Wilson, Enge, Bourdais, Janqueria, in my opinion are all fantastic drivers and are capable of F1 seats. Differnt people will no doubt have differnt views from myself but it seems to. But I expect most people will have a list like I do of the drivers they think should make it in to F1 and will some day be great, our lists might even clash on certain drivers. Anyway dont give up hope, its just taking some drivers longer to get into F1 than others, for whatever the rea$on may be. |
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__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite!
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9 Dec 2002, 14:18 (Ref:446309)
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#4 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9
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i'm not saying that they are bad pilots, but what i say is in Brasil we have better pilots than zonta and pizzonia. As they don't have money they don't appear. Just see Cristiano da Matta, Felipe Giaffone, Bruno Junqueira, they are great pilots, but they don't have a lot of money to go direct to F-1, theu have to pass in CART or IRL first, and show his talent...oterwise pizzonia and zonta because they have a lot of money races in F-1. I am from the same city as Zonta, and i know his father's supermarket...they have a lot of money, like pedro paulo diniz, that never won a race in any category he had race...they not a bad pilots, but do you agree that have better pilots than this two????
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9 Dec 2002, 14:24 (Ref:446313)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,027
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Ok, you are in Brasil, you have another and better view of the puzzle...Brasil is a country of gorgeous drivers...
I have a question for you....What Can you tell me of Nelsinho Piquet? Is he a great driver? or Is a normal driver with much money to spend in a Motorsport career? |
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9 Dec 2002, 14:26 (Ref:446314)
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#6 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9
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i agree with you sallen, and in your couwntry i think exist the same problem...F-1 today has small space for the best drivers, one of the seats have to be a pilot that have a big sponsor, look takuma sato, and alex yoong...they are worst pilots...frentzen had his time...and verstapen too...give a chance to bourdais, justin wilson, tomas enge, jaime melo, they are great pilots, but now they can't race in F-1 because sponsors problems...
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9 Dec 2002, 14:30 (Ref:446317)
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#7 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9
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Nelsinho is a great driver with a lot of money. They born in a track, so they have a lot of hours in development as a pilot, with his father beside him...i think he is the next brazilian champion...not all the pilots racing now...they races for small teams, and the one tha have conditions to get the title, races beside the schumacher...so...barrichello never be a champion racing besides schumacher...in my opinion nelsinho was a briliant pilot as your father...
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9 Dec 2002, 14:36 (Ref:446321)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,027
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Ok, I was expecting that reply
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9 Dec 2002, 14:47 (Ref:446329)
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#9 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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Quote:
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9 Dec 2002, 19:04 (Ref:446466)
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#10 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 65
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Every country has its stars in the lower formula who never made it. In GB alone, I can go back as far as 80's. Rad Dougal for one (F3) Russell Spence (F3), John Pratt (FF1600/2000), Morrizio Sandro Sala (FF1600/2000/F3), Andy Wallace (ok he made it elsewhere, but he wanted to do F1).
Sometimes its money, sometimes its right team, wrong time! Sometimes its just wrong team. But Zonta and Pizzonia, are good, and did have good teams that made there sponsorship money work. It's just a shame Zonta had his head screwed up by BAR. And this year we will see just how good Pizzonia is. I suspect a future winner with another team! Wilson is not a big money boy at all, but if he breaks into F1, I think he will go far! Being tall never stopped Berger!! |
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__________________
To finish first, first you must find a sponsor!
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9 Dec 2002, 20:16 (Ref:446495)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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i agree completly, I mean for my money Pizzonia is better than Webber. Most people wont agree I know but I prefer Pizzonias chances myself.
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__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite!
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9 Dec 2002, 20:19 (Ref:446496)
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#12 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 16
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I agree with you Andre, I think Nelsinho is good but not a phenomenon that eberybody thinks he is. He is good as he father was. And he has MONEY so he's appearing more than others young good drivers.
And I agree too that Pizzonia and Zonta aren't so good that Cristiano da Matta, Bruno Junqueira and Jaime Melo Jr... Zonta and Pizzonia are good but not like them. Money is a great problem in autoracing... |
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9 Dec 2002, 20:25 (Ref:446502)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,967
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Money isn't a problem in racing, it is just one of the most important facets. You don't have money, you shouldn't go racing. Like you don't NEED 2 legs to fly Spitfires, but really and truly you should have them. Very very few exceptions to the rule, and even then, the exceptions would have been in years gone by, not today. No gentleman racers left, sadly.
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__________________
Sit in a chair, lift your right leg off the ground, point your toes forward and draw CLOCKWISE circles in the air with your foot. Then raise your right hand and draw the number 6 in the air with your index finger. Your foot will change direction. If you can't even do this simple coordination task, how could you drive a racing car?
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9 Dec 2002, 20:59 (Ref:446527)
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#14 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,840
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You think Jamie Melo Jr is better than Pizzonia and Zonta? Man what are you on...
I agree on Bruno, the guy is a mega talent. Christiano Da Matta is overrated. |
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9 Dec 2002, 21:33 (Ref:446551)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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Janqueria is a lot better in my opinion than any other current CART driver, he just has to prove himself next year. Da Matta is overrated, not majorly but hes not as good as people make out.
Janqueria has a good CV also after all he did beat Minassion to the title in 2000 - when Minassion was still a great racer, shame hes now wasting his talents in ASCAR. |
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__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite!
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9 Dec 2002, 22:19 (Ref:446596)
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#16 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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__________________
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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9 Dec 2002, 22:26 (Ref:446602)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,967
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True Mackie, yet Douglas Bader managed it and got himself an OBE or whatever for it. He simply refused NOT to fly, legs or no legs. (I used to work for him once - he was nothing like as nice as Kenneth More in that wonderful old film Reach for the Sky). But he really did fly a Spitfire in WW2 with wooden legs. But that's like our 4 wheeled pilots today ... today, Douglas Bader would NOT have been able to fly, and if Nigel Mansell was driving for Mackie Motorsport, he might not have attracted the attention that Jamie Green got in his Fortec car <ducks> :-) Sorry! You know what I mean!!!
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__________________
Sit in a chair, lift your right leg off the ground, point your toes forward and draw CLOCKWISE circles in the air with your foot. Then raise your right hand and draw the number 6 in the air with your index finger. Your foot will change direction. If you can't even do this simple coordination task, how could you drive a racing car?
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9 Dec 2002, 23:47 (Ref:446653)
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#18 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 357
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The problem is to define , what is a great driver?, who is better than who? is very difficult to define. Pizzonia won everything, but in 3000 was average. Montoya wasnt special up to 3000 were he was mega. When you say this driver is better than this one, why you say it?, besed in what race or what year?
The specxial drivers are deffined by a lot of years being really good and winning, like senna, in a lot of years. Now one driver wins one championship being 19 and everybody compares him to senna or prost or whoever... so at the end of the day we have tree mega stars every year in every country... we have to be more carefull defining very good drivers, there are only very few. |
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10 Dec 2002, 00:46 (Ref:446667)
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#19 | |||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,010
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Quote:
Agree with you totally about John Pratt (best FF driver ever??), "Morris" and Wallace (especially Wallace, always thought he was a driver made for Tyrrell F1 duty). Not so sure about big Russell tho, he did'nt have the application needed, even if he had the talent! If you are having Russell (cos hes a yorkshireman!) then I would say Tim Davies from the same era did just as well on a fraction of the money. Id also add Dave Coyne - not everyone may have liked him and he might have been a porker but he was quick as... |
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Andretti, Mario: Auto racing legend owns the rights to an unspecified Spinal Tap song, which he purchased when former manager Ian Faith secretly sold the band’s catalog
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10 Dec 2002, 02:32 (Ref:446697)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,473
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What about Bruno Junqueira?
He his hot, did he have lot's of money over talent? I only know him since 1999 and I thinks it's great he was rookie of the year and then finished 2nd in CART only in his 2nd year. |
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10 Dec 2002, 02:36 (Ref:446700)
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#21 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9
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You think Jamie Melo Jr is better than Pizzonia and Zonta? Man what are you on...
I agree on Bruno, the guy is a mega talent. Christiano Da Matta is overrated. Russfeld Man, i always see their races...pizzonia and jaime melo races some yars toghether in kart, melo always beat pizzonia, last year in f3000 international, pizzonia never win untill jaime melo go out the f3000. So this year pizzonia show everithing he knows, he almost kill mario haberfeld, he had 2 accidents las week in barcelona...man...he only have money..when he take the car like the others he never win...felipe massa races with him too, and always win...but both of them loose 2 brazilian chmapionship of kart to melo jr. but melo jr don´t have money...zonta is a good driver, but he is only median driver...i think junqueira have to race in formula one in the place of frentzen or another driver, melo too, justin wilson too, and another pilots with talent, not money... |
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10 Dec 2002, 02:36 (Ref:446702)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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I dont think Janqueria is over rated at all, he won the F3000 title in 2000 and was rookie of the year in 2001 in CART and as u say finished 2nd this season in CART. My money is on him winning the series next year and getting a seat into F1 for 2004.
At least thats what I hope! |
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__________________
Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite!
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10 Dec 2002, 13:36 (Ref:446958)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,967
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Morcilman hits the nail on the head. Great drivers become great (at their own pace) and stay great. They don't fade away. Once a driver has reached a level of winning/attainment, the measure of how good he is, is how long he keeps winning, and in what car(s). There are a lot of "flash-in-the-pan" great drivers these days.
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__________________
Sit in a chair, lift your right leg off the ground, point your toes forward and draw CLOCKWISE circles in the air with your foot. Then raise your right hand and draw the number 6 in the air with your index finger. Your foot will change direction. If you can't even do this simple coordination task, how could you drive a racing car?
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10 Dec 2002, 19:35 (Ref:447196)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 913
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Everyone who has contributed to date, is using graduation to Formula One as the only true measure of success.But is it?Are we not confusing the issue with fame and fortune which is an entirely different subject.In my view great drivers don't have to participate in F1 at all - some do but it's not necessary.Drivers such as Petty,Waltrip,Gerry Marshall,Bob Wolleck,Andy Rouse,Steve Soper,Hans Stuck,AJ Foyt and Rick Mears have all been hugely succesful in their chosen categories,they just haven't been as high profile as most F1 drivers - but no less succesful.There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of talented drivers down the years but only a handful which you could truely call exceptonal.Senna,Prost,Schumacher,Clark?
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10 Dec 2002, 20:51 (Ref:447224)
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#25 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 65
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Ghinzani, I mentioned Russell Spence because for 3 seasons he came 3rd in the championships. And always lead overall for the first half of the season... Until he either messed around with the cars set up too much (making radical changes, and losing his way) or falling out with the team half way through the season. There was nothing wrong with his application, he just drove really hard, and was hard on the car!
Tim Davies was another good peddler, but I think when he drove the Vision chassis, it totally screwed up his carrea, mainly because it was ****, and was just unfortunate to be partnered with Andy Wallace at Swallow racing the year before that, cos Wallace was a Reynard man to the bone, and gave very good feedback. I really wish Coyne had got further, but I think he just lost interest after his euro F3 season. I beleive he went back to selling cars or something??? |
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