Race 2 grid order rule set to change? Or not?

Holly Wood · 30 Mar 2009, 11:24 (Ref:2428901)

Anyone know what’s going to happen with the starting order format? May it change mid-season?

After the initial flack from all and sundry, it was interesting to read a rather positive piece on it here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignition

“...the Clipsal 500 would have been a real fizzer if not for the new system...”

Personally, I’m still not sold one way or the other... as long as the racing’s good I really don’t mind where people start.

What does everyone else think?

Pro Racer · 30 Mar 2009, 14:50 (Ref:2429048)

change it ASAP, hate it.

Average Punter · 30 Mar 2009, 20:03 (Ref:2429263)

Depends on the format.

Three sprint races? I reckon it's dumb. It takes 3 races to fight back from a dodgy qualifying run.

Twin enduros like the Clipsal? Bring it on...

stoned pony · 31 Mar 2009, 01:09 (Ref:2429470)

I don't care one way or the other really but I do think the drivers and team owners were as dumb as dirt for not saying anything about the new rule when it was first published in December (?) and yet starting whining and bellyaching about it in Adelaide three months later.

Alan52 · 31 Mar 2009, 01:52 (Ref:2429481)

I understand the original proposal was for a qualifying session on Saturday morning for the Saturday race and another qualifying session on Sunday morning for the Sunday race.When the team owners objected to this on cost grounds (pretty hypocritical as they embrace increasing numbers of street races with the associated massive damage bills) the current system was accepted as a compromise.Like all compromises the gaps in logic in the system are apparent.

racer69 · 31 Mar 2009, 02:32 (Ref:2429488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Twin enduros like the Clipsal? Bring it on...

makes it abit silly calling it the Clipsal 500 though, if part one doesn't carry over in anyway to part two (though this has always been a curious problem at Adelaide if its one race or two)

davester · 31 Mar 2009, 03:29 (Ref:2429496)

The POLITICS behind this are simple.
For the STRONG teams who on average qualify well, it's an insurance policy to minimise dropping points off the championship leader, by being guaranteed a good R2 start position.

For the WEAK teams, it is a nail in the coffin of teams who previously relied on a lucky R1 race result to start R2 from the front half.

The final result can be nothing less than a greater divide between the well-off and the no-so's.

The new 2009 qual rule is nothing more than another attempt to artificially keep the championship close.

NewsStalker · 31 Mar 2009, 05:05 (Ref:2429509)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davester

The POLITICS behind this are simple.
For the STRONG teams who on average qualify well, it's an insurance policy to minimise dropping points off the championship leader, by being guaranteed a good R2 start position.

For the WEAK teams, it is a nail in the coffin of teams who previously relied on a lucky R1 race result to start R2 from the front half.

The final result can be nothing less than a greater divide between the well-off and the no-so's.

But then, of course, also manages to catch out the STRONG teams who have an off day..

davester · 31 Mar 2009, 05:49 (Ref:2429512)

It's the races that capture most viewer/spectator attention...yet VESA have instigated a system where Qualifying is now the most important part of the weekend.

Qualifying now plays a disproportionate role in the weekend and the championship. I think if you look at the years TV schedule, you'll find VERY LITTLE live qualifying coverage, yet it is going to determine the championship if this system continues...it is not balanced. A cynic may conclude that this rule change is more about creating discussion and publicity, than being a solution that benefits the sport as a whole.

In Euro FIA formula's, when Qualifying determines a R2 grid, that race has it's own qualifying (ie: two separate and independent qualifying sessions). This in itself is cumbersome.

peckstar · 31 Mar 2009, 08:31 (Ref:2429558)

davestar i think you might wont to reconsider your post in light of most if not all of qualifying been shown as well as a the top ten shoot out

me i think qualifying is wrong totally, what a stupid way to determine grid positions

Go Harder. · 31 Mar 2009, 09:19 (Ref:2429601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

me i think qualifying is wrong totally, what a stupid way to determine grid positions

If you have an idea of a better system then I'm certain many others would like to hear it

peckstar · 31 Mar 2009, 09:24 (Ref:2429607)

its really simple. give everyone a chance ito start in each position. so in theory over time each person should start in positions 1 thru 30

(or just do it totally randomly)

Pro Racer · 31 Mar 2009, 09:29 (Ref:2429614)

chook raffle.

peckstar · 31 Mar 2009, 09:32 (Ref:2429619)

well i think you would call it grid raffle.
in a chhok raffle the winner gets a chook, but unless steggals or KFC come on board i cants ee that happening

ozrevhead · 31 Mar 2009, 09:35 (Ref:2429621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

But then, of course, also manages to catch out the STRONG teams who have an off day..

how often does that happen?

I hate the new system it should of been the same as last year - sooner they change it the better!

Go Harder. · 31 Mar 2009, 09:36 (Ref:2429623)

Sure. The teams will go for that...So we turn up saturday go home sunday and an event becomes 2 days?

peckstar · 31 Mar 2009, 09:43 (Ref:2429628)

we still practise, except we concentrate on race set ups in practise

We get a much more interesting race as passing occurs and we test the drivers more because we get to see who can carve through the field and who can handly midpack on the first corner and sponsors get more exposure

I see no negatives except we have to get rid of an old fuddy duddy idea that achieves very little

is a two day event such a bad idea. V8SA were already considering it for this year

certaibly the crowds are small on friday.

TCR · 1 Apr 2009, 02:32 (Ref:2430233)

I hate it.

I think they've tried to change too much of what was already a decent formula. Go back to the old system of qualifying and introduce the soft tyre option asap, that'll introduce a bit more strategy into the racing and provide for some overtaking.

EBXR8 · 1 Apr 2009, 03:23 (Ref:2430252)

This weeks AA reports the the Qualy format is set to change effective from Hamilton with Qualy for Sat and Qualy for Sun. Then again i just recalled it is april 1 so it could be a joke. If so poor taste from AA on such an important issue.

Pro Racer · 1 Apr 2009, 04:09 (Ref:2430271)

if it isn't a fools joke i don't mind it, i reckon a 20 min dash Sunday morning would be a thrill.

Pro Racer · 6 Apr 2009, 07:56 (Ref:2434832)

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/conten...fying_changes/

common sence preveils. they have gone with the system i said i wouldn't mind in the above poste. i deally i would like it to be where you finish Saturday you start Sunday but i don't mind this. it allows teams to get their car right on Saturday and do a better job of qualifying on sunday.

ozrevhead · 6 Apr 2009, 09:29 (Ref:2434909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/conten...fying_changes/

common sence preveils. they have gone with the system i said i wouldn't mind in the above poste. i deally i would like it to be where you finish Saturday you start Sunday but i don't mind this. it allows teams to get their car right on Saturday and do a better job of qualifying on sunday.

I like it

its not perfect but its a damm sight better than the new format

RotorFan · 6 Apr 2009, 22:17 (Ref:2435526)

That really dilutes the Top 10 Shootout, though, doesn't it?

Whats the point of having a shootout for one race and not the other? I think this makes less sense than the previous format.

F J Nedos · 6 Apr 2009, 23:16 (Ref:2435546)

It only makes a slight improvement on the clipsal qualifying format... but not much. It does mean that teams who stuff up in qualifying 1 can at least rectify that stuff up for qualifying 2. They might have more data in the car obtained from race one. But is the 20 minutes going to be a free for all?

What are they trying to fix with qualifiying? I wasn't aware that there was anything majorly wrong with it.

I noticed with that release that they talk about the soft tyre option. I kind of like this, however it would be a shame for it to be just part of the procession - as in F1. You will find that all teams will now start with the soft tyre for better get away, then they change to the optimum tyre for the rest of the race when the track is more rubbered in.

Muznik · 7 Apr 2009, 00:08 (Ref:2435576)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

It only makes a slight improvement on the clipsal qualifying format... but not much. It does mean that teams who stuff up in qualifying 1 can at least rectify that stuff up for qualifying 2. They might have more data in the car obtained from race one. But is the 20 minutes going to be a free for all?

What are they trying to fix with qualifiying? I wasn't aware that there was anything majorly wrong with it.

I noticed with that release that they talk about the soft tyre option. I kind of like this, however it would be a shame for it to be just part of the procession - as in F1. You will find that all teams will now start with the soft tyre for better get away, then they change to the optimum tyre for the rest of the race when the track is more rubbered in.

Other than it was a complete farce ??
Gridding up in race 2 back in the original qualifying places IMHO was a joke.

Im happy with the change but dont understand why they just dont start from R1 finshing positions.

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