Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13 Feb 2011, 13:06 (Ref:2830543)   #51
nabs
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
nabs should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
broadspeed 1300

sorry forgot to put every part of interior was as per standard road car. ta
nabs is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 13:13 (Ref:2830545)   #52
nabs
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
nabs should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
boreham works escort

the car was painted in the white roof and blue sides with white outlinig design the only good thing we can say about it.....ta
nabs is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 13:49 (Ref:2830561)   #53
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Cheers for all that. Thought the 60's cars kept complete interior so now just trying to figure out how that changed during 70s. Slowly stuff was discarded starting with rear seat and I guess headlining. By 77 even door cards could be lightened but had to remain fitted. Trouble is the rules for a particular year don't always match evidence from those around at the time!

Broadspeed car's dampers- are you saying thay poked through floor as in silver car about 11 posts ago?

Reckon the Boreham car went though a few colour changes

Thanks again.
Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 15:19 (Ref:2830595)   #54
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can anyone confirm if this is a real or a replica Zak?
https://picasaweb.google.com/Fordyou...69318428075778


Here is some more photos of the Finnish "torsionbar" car
https://picasaweb.google.com/finnlan...ainenOTGP2007#

Last edited by jsvahn; 13 Feb 2011 at 15:28.
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 15:49 (Ref:2830602)   #55
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I would also like to have lot of BDA parts in my garage..
Aluminium rear axle would also be to great help

https://picasaweb.google.com/superro...alienSammlung#

https://picasaweb.google.com/superroo73/CHIAVACCI#
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 16:49 (Ref:2830622)   #56
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Wow- I'm speechless after looking at that line up of cars & parts

Need to sell everything and move to Italy............

Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Feb 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2830653)   #57
nabs
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
nabs should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
jsvahn

great pictures....................thank you,thank you..

Last edited by chunterer; 15 Feb 2011 at 13:26. Reason: At posters request.
nabs is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2011, 12:05 (Ref:2830976)   #58
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Can I just pick up on the pre 1975 Bodywork regs. In the Capri Homologation Certificate the widened bodywork for the RS3100 was made by cutting the wing panels and adding in a fibreglass horizontal top panel. This gave the 50mm additional width each side.

They homologated ally diff casings etc. but not sure about the entire axle casing.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2011, 16:15 (Ref:2831074)   #59
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What about the shells? Did Zak use an AVO shell or a basic Köln shell?

Which rear axle? Big Atlas or the baby Atlas (Köln axle)?



I´ve tried to contact JB Racing in Germany but without luck. Perhaps no answer because of my english email..
http://www.jb-racing.de/haupt.htm

Here is an album of their cars and it seems they have or had a MK1 Zak
http://www.100octane.de/index.php?op...limitstart=100

Finally a teaser. JB Racing Mk2. Enjoy the engine sound
http://www.102octane.de/videos/schle...usbernhart.wmv
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2011, 17:36 (Ref:2831105)   #60
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvahn View Post
What about the shells? Did Zak use an AVO shell or a basic Köln shell?

Which rear axle? Big Atlas or the baby Atlas (Köln axle)?
In UK I understand the Gomm works rally shells were based on standard Escort as the strengthening and modifications required were well beyond the normal type 49 shell, so may as well use a standard one. I have no idea what Broadspeed or Zakspeed used for racing but would guess also a modified standard shell.

For the Atlas axle, with the wheel width they were using maybe the full width version would have been too wide, but as brakes were small enough to fit inside rims they could have used wheel offset to get track correct. I think what we now call the 'baby' atlas would have been too narrow. I use the normal wide one.

Maybe from those axle pictures you posted some measurements could be taken!
Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2011, 22:00 (Ref:2831249)   #61
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,674
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Broadspeed shells were heavily modified and lightened. The normal atlas axle was used (I think the 'baby' atlas is a more recent development) and BBS 3 piece rims with large inset were the wheels to use.
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2011, 05:31 (Ref:2831393)   #62
4dnut
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 17
4dnut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php...ntrantID=16411
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car
4dnut is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2011, 12:24 (Ref:2831540)   #63
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dnut View Post
I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car
Wow that is a great looking car- a real credit to you. Thanks for posting the info! They look like centrelock wheels- were they specially made as well?
Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2011, 12:54 (Ref:2831554)   #64
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dnut View Post
I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php...ntrantID=16411
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car
Thank you very much!

Do you have any building photos or tech. photos of your car? Photos of the Atlas?
Do you have had the possibility to use a real Zak as a model?

You can send photos to johan(at)johansvahn.com
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2011, 17:56 (Ref:2831705)   #65
4dnut
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 17
4dnut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
my car uses E50 magnesium BBS wheels, it is centrelock and actually has airjacks aswell,I will try and post a diff picture
4dnut is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2011, 11:59 (Ref:2836675)   #66
superroo73
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Germany
Germany near Frankfurt
Posts: 27
superroo73 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
nice that my pictures displayed everywhere :-)
they also star with teh name fordyoungtimerclub or youngtimerclub becaus superroo73 is full in the webalbum of google :-)

sistercar of that car from finland has a friend in NZ he wants to rebuild the torsion bar systenm becaus it´s now in 5-link. he extra went to Finnland for masuring all the details and took more pictutres

as i know eary zak cars where from UK from broadspeed later he build himself from std shells, you can see the chrome lining around the rear sidewindows at some of the cars...

hope it heps

greeds
Stefan
superroo73 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 03:14 (Ref:2837039)   #67
enforsa
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
New Zealand
Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 7
enforsa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hey Stefan. As soon as I saw those pictures I knew they were yours. Hi all I'm new to the forum. A few people I know on here as well! I have one of the sister cars to the Finnish car here in New Zealand. There were 3 of them built to identical spec. One was destroyed in 1973 and the other 2 have survived. Mine was driven by Erik Hoyer from Denmark.

I've been to Finland to look at the Kemiläinen car. The owner allowed me unrestricted access to it which was great. We jacked it up and took off the wheels in his heated garage, measured and photographed everything we needed to. I believe the suspension setup was designed by Len Bailey. The torsion bars are definitely off a Morris Minor 1000 (MM). The arms connecting the torsion bar via the drop links to the diff are modified MM arms that normally secure the stationary end of the torsion bars to the chassis on a standard MM. The modifications are pretty crude looking actually. (Period pictures of my car show more precision work on the arms) The TCA's on it now are CNC machined ones made when one of the original cast ones which are still with the car failed during a race meeting with obvious consequences. There isn't much meat around the outer joint and it broke off. CNC'd ones have been machined with a little more material around the joint. The rear dampers have been replaced but the originals are also still with the car. Originals are single seater coil overs with the platforms and adjusting nuts removed. I have a pair identical but can't remember the make off hand but probably Armstrong.

The chassis mounts for the compression struts are modified early model Escort standard compression strut brackets that normally bolt to the chassis rails with 4 through bolts.

My car presumably had the same TCA's originally but its last outing in Ford ownership was on the Circuit of Ireland Rally in 1975, when it ran with somewhat standard uprights. The compression struts remained but it was fitted with standard configuration Armstrong McPherson struts and modified standard TCA's with a bearing inner and a mount for a drop link from the anti roll bar welded to it. The diff hat was turned upside down as the ride height was raised somewhat (pivot pin for the Watts was offset by approx 25mm from diff centre)

I should acknowledge the photos below are from Martin Holmes. Taken at
Boreham in 1975 after Circuit of Ireland.



enforsa is offline  
__________________
Cheers

Chris
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 09:00 (Ref:2837087)   #68
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Hi Stefan, thanks for the input and great photos! I have seen pictures of Zakspeed cars with the side window trim and assumed they must have started with a standard car- Can't imagine adding them to a race car on purpose!

Welcome Chris, and thanks for the info on your car which I guess is Roger Clark's C of I steed?

I had always understood that the Escort torsion bars were MM front suspension items, but as the later Marina & Ital used same layout it may be that the bars are interchangeable. (I worked for a BL dealer and we always joked at the time that Marina was just a re-bodied Minor!) I presume in Martin's pic of rear end that right 'leaf spring' has gone walkabout?

Interesting about the TCA failure. I run normal Ford items with rose bearing inner but have always been uneasy about the outer pin being strong enough. Obviously the Alloy version can be weak in other ways! TCAs and front hub carriers are the items I would like to change to something more like the Zak setup.

Again, thanks for the info and anything else you think may know or learn about suspension or period Gp2 Escorts in general much appreciated.

Mike
Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 16:23 (Ref:2837205)   #69
ae86
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13
ae86 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
can you give some more info regarding a alu atlas ?
ae86 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 17:19 (Ref:2837226)   #70
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ae86 View Post
can you give some more info regarding a alu atlas ?
In period or making one now? 4dnut is the man switched on to making them- maybe pm direct?
Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 18:10 (Ref:2837239)   #71
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
In period or making one now?
Both would be great to know

I havent got any photos from 4dnut yet but Im still waiting..
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2011, 23:39 (Ref:2837328)   #72
enforsa
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
New Zealand
Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 7
enforsa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
Hi Stefan, thanks for the input and great photos! I have seen pictures of Zakspeed cars with the side window trim and assumed they must have started with a standard car- Can't imagine adding them to a race car on purpose!

Welcome Chris, and thanks for the info on your car which I guess is Roger Clark's C of I steed?

I had always understood that the Escort torsion bars were MM front suspension items, but as the later Marina & Ital used same layout it may be that the bars are interchangeable. (I worked for a BL dealer and we always joked at the time that Marina was just a re-bodied Minor!) I presume in Martin's pic of rear end that right 'leaf spring' has gone walkabout?

Interesting about the TCA failure. I run normal Ford items with rose bearing inner but have always been uneasy about the outer pin being strong enough. Obviously the Alloy version can be weak in other ways! TCAs and front hub carriers are the items I would like to change to something more like the Zak setup.

Again, thanks for the info and anything else you think may know or learn about suspension or period Gp2 Escorts in general much appreciated.

Mike
Thanks for the welcome Mike. Yes the car is indeed Mr Clarks car from COI and yes the missing "spring" had gone walkabout when that photo was taken. The rules were certainly interesting then! It wouldn't surprise me if the same bars were used on the Marina's etc but hadn't considered that until reading this thread. I carefully measured a MM one before I went to Finland just to make sure I knew what to look for. I had also corresponded with the guy in Holland who has the Willment RS1600 with torsion rear and he told me MM items were used. Its pretty easy to see when you are lying under a car with them and you know what to look for. Two other unconnected sources said the same.

I wouldnt worry about the strength of the outer pin on a standard TCA. I've broken an adjustable TCA in two at the adjusting nut but the outer pin stayed all good - well it did bend but didn't break. The broken bit was 3/4" dia!

Last edited by enforsa; 26 Feb 2011 at 23:45.
enforsa is offline  
__________________
Cheers

Chris
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2011, 06:03 (Ref:2837375)   #73
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by enforsa View Post
I wouldnt worry about the strength of the outer pin on a standard TCA. I've broken an adjustable TCA in two at the adjusting nut but the outer pin stayed all good - well it did bend but didn't break. The broken bit was 3/4" dia!
Thanks for the reply Chris. So is your car back to torsion bar spec now?

You have hit the nail on the head with above comment about pin bending not breaking! This is of course the least catastrophic result of an impact and I'm sure would be the reason on COI Ford ran cast steel TCAs and normal struts. (Or eligibility issues of course!) You are likely to finish the stage or race with bent suspension- but probably not with broken suspension!

Nowadays I'm more concerned about retention of the ball pin in it's cup at end of TCA. (Not sure of quality!) With rose bearing it is all on view and easier to check. Maybe way to go is tubular steel TCAs with rose bearing outer, then steel pin locating into standard upright.

How about hubs and stub axles? Again, if the standard stub bends a bit less dramatic than it shearing off.

Thanks again for taking time to post. Would be great for this thread to eventually lead to a better understanding of the period Gp2 Escort. It's getting there!

Mike Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Feb 2011, 06:07 (Ref:2837797)   #74
enforsa
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
New Zealand
Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 7
enforsa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The car will be back to torsion spec when I've finished. Nothing too difficult now I've done the research. The bars were removed and it was fitted with leaf springs when found in 1990. Finland is a long long way from New Zealand to go and look at a car for a couple of days just to make sure I do it right then go home again! I've also found a guy here in NZ who worked on the Norman Reeves / Dave Brodie sister car that was written off in 1972. He particularly rembers it for the rear suspension.

Here's a few pics of the Willment / Crabtree car's rear suspension which I'm sure will be of interest to a few. Mike Crabtree reckoned it was better than the Boreham cars as it was more adjustable and from the look of it he is right. A slightly different take on the idea. I like the way the "springs" are attached. Not sure how the outboard 4 links further the cause of fitting the widest wheels possible in the arches though.







enforsa is offline  
__________________
Cheers

Chris
Quote
Old 2 Mar 2011, 00:19 (Ref:2838793)   #75
ae86
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13
ae86 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
lucas mek pump

I hope that some one can help

I am helping a frind to convert his BDG from cab to Lucas mek injection

problem are that he want to run a altenator also. Normaly they fit the mec pump where the altenator are but now I have seen that the Zackspeed engines have the pump driven from inlet cam.
Pullyes and belt I have sorted but is there any one that have a picture off the bracket that holds the pump in bottom ?

/Rene
ae86 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Group 5 Zakspeed Escort zakspeed65 Motorsport History 367 8 Feb 2021 15:39
Mk1 Escort Historic Racer rfl Historic Racing Today 18 29 May 2006 21:49
1974 Iroc IROC#9 Motorsport History 2 25 Jan 2006 19:39
Nick Whiting,s Mk1 Escort Superloon Motorsport History 14 14 Jan 2005 21:18
1974 demo F1 C gttouring Virtual Racers 12 17 Dec 2004 13:18


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.