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Old 5 May 2016, 04:01 (Ref:3638668)   #151
BrentJackson
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BrentJackson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBrentJackson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by anthony81901 View Post
What is needed if new manufacturers are to be attracted is a clean slate, with every body starting from scratch with cars that are more market relevant. The BTCC went down the common platform path much like COTF a few years ago, but because their cars are more representative of manufacturers products, they have been more successful in bringing in new players.
I agree on this, but in a small market like Australia (and a series which has seem its television viewer base drop dramatically thanks to an alarmingly stupid television deal), making their own entirely new category isn't gonna fly unless that category is really, really cheap OR they can get support for it from another sanctioning body or series somewhere else in the world - but getting the support from worldwide while keeping the V8s is pretty much impossible now.

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Ultimately V8SC needs to weigh up the pros and cons of alienating some of its diehard supporter base with servicing the marketing needs of manufacturers.
I think they've pretty much given that base the finger with the TV deals. Now that the manufacturers are leaving the building (and don't kid yourself folks, the sanctioning body now has no leverage whatsoever on Nissan, they will get whatever they want, and if that's turbocharged fours then that's what'll be raced), they have a genuine existential crisis from which there is no getting out without seven-figure losses. The only question is how they want to lose, not if.

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And how many millions of dollars will that cost to do... And who then pays?

Its just not that simple.
Maybe not, but its coming. With this, Gen2 pretty much is untenable. They can't allow it to be Commodore Cup with the loss in the television ratings unless they want to end up with a very short field.
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Old 5 May 2016, 04:29 (Ref:3638669)   #152
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You wonder now whether GRM can keep Scotty Mac.

Could be a shocking double blow to GRM.
The other elephant in the room for them is the implication of their sponsors Wilson Security in the Panama Papers.This company has been shown in these documents to be guilty of massive tax fraud and there is no doubt the ATO is coming after them.Also they have represented themselves as an Australian company gaining massive government contracts.The Panama Papers showed that their ownership is routed through a series of shell companies.The ultimate ownership of the company is in the hands of 2 Chinese national brothers based in Hong Kong where one is currently serving a long prison sentence on bribery and corruption charges.When this all works it's way through the ATO and ACCC it is hard to see the company existing let alone retaining it's government contracts.Motor racing sponsorship will be the least of their worries.
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Old 5 May 2016, 05:41 (Ref:3638675)   #153
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Volvo Car Australia Expected To Continue In 2017 & Beyond...

...but wasn't allowed... and isn't allowed...

So perhaps this is the source of Mr Phelps' scoop... since thwarted!
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:20 (Ref:3638678)   #154
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The other elephant in the room for them is the implication of their sponsors Wilson Security in the Panama Papers.
If precedent was anything to go by, Wilson Security were probably headed for the exit gate, don't think they have ever extended a V8SC sponsorship beyond the initial contract.
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:22 (Ref:3638679)   #155
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If precedent was anything to go by, Wilson Security were probably headed for the exit gate, don't think they have ever extended a V8SC sponsorship beyond the initial contract.
They've also been in the sport in some ways over and above their commitments for a good 10 years or so.
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:23 (Ref:3638681)   #156
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Its going to be a shame not to see those Volvos running around next year, they are two cracking looking cars.

I wonder if this effects the Nissan decision in any way? Part of me thinks it might make their exit from the category easier. I'd panic if I heard that Nissan were going to hold a press conference in the next week to talk about their future in the category...

I feel sorry for the boys at GRM mainly though, it seemed that finally a team was being rewarded for all those years of doing things cheaper and cleverer than most. I'd like to say I can see some silver lining here, but...
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:44 (Ref:3638689)   #157
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I wouldn't be surprised if Volvo put Scotty in the S60 TC1 for their planned 3rd WTCC entry next year. I guess there was a reason behind the recent trip to Sweden other than his STCC ride.

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Old 5 May 2016, 06:46 (Ref:3638690)   #158
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I wonder if this effects the Nissan decision in any way? Part of me thinks it might make their exit from the category easier.
I agree, much like when Ford and Holden announced they would stop manufacturing cars in Australia. I am still unclear why GRM cannot continue to use Volvos. Wouldn't it be like other teams using Fords or Holdens without factory support.

Can a manufacturer stop a team racing their car? Surely the only genuine parts left are the badges on the grille.
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:50 (Ref:3638692)   #159
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Can a manufacturer stop a team racing their car? Surely the only genuine parts left are the badges on the grille.
They can if they own the cars and the IP.

Anything to stop GRM running the V8SC engine, COTF chassis and developing their own panels and aero kit? You know, like a real touring car.
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Old 5 May 2016, 06:57 (Ref:3638693)   #160
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Can a manufacturer stop a team racing their car? Surely the only genuine parts left are the badges on the grille.
V8SC require a manufacturer to sanction its product being raced. If they won't then the car is ineligible for competition. Has been reported that it is in the contract that GRM has to sell the cars to Volvo should the factory withdraw. Does seem a bit strange I agree, given that Volvo will have no use for them and they will probably end up stored in a shed in Gothenburg.

When Erebus and AMG terminated their agreement at the end of 2014, the team had to gain permission from Mercedes-Benz to continue racing the E63, which it duly did.
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Old 5 May 2016, 07:01 (Ref:3638694)   #161
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I agree, much like when Ford and Holden announced they would stop manufacturing cars in Australia. I am still unclear why GRM cannot continue to use Volvos. Wouldn't it be like other teams using Fords or Holdens without factory support.
Polestar developed the engine and aero package, so therefore they own it.

Also regardign when Ford announced their closure, it was clear that parts suppliers couldn't achieve the economies of scale and therefore pricing to continue to support Holden and Toyota to the same level without Ford, so the writing was on the wall there for practical reasons.
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Old 5 May 2016, 07:10 (Ref:3638696)   #162
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Originally Posted by anthony81901 View Post

What is needed if new manufacturers are to be attracted is a clean slate, with every body starting from scratch with cars that are more market relevant. The BTCC went down the common platform path much like COTF a few years ago, but because their cars are more representative of manufacturers products, they have been more successful in bringing in new players.
Completely different business model, though. BTCC these days is not a career but a hobby - hardly a driver in the series that doesn't have to bring money, usually from the family. Proper manufacturers interest is very low - two Hondas and Plato cajoling Subaru into letting him run the Levorgs under the factory banner, but paid for - at least to a large part - by outside sponsors.

Sure, it works - but it is miles away from the "major league" aspirations which V8SC seems to have.
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Old 5 May 2016, 07:50 (Ref:3638702)   #163
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Polestar developed the engine and aero package, so therefore they own it.

Also regardign when Ford announced their closure, it was clear that parts suppliers couldn't achieve the economies of scale and therefore pricing to continue to support Holden and Toyota to the same level without Ford, so the writing was on the wall there for practical reasons.
Development and ownership are two completely different things but it does appear that the agreement between GRM and Polestar requires the cars to be returned at the end of the agreement.
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Old 5 May 2016, 08:10 (Ref:3638705)   #164
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why are people making a big deal about the cars? Volvo/Polestar obviously have it in the contract that the cars go back to them when the contract is finished - for the same reason why they have pulled out; because they don't want their product to be continue to be used with an engine that is totally irrelevent to what they sell.
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Old 5 May 2016, 08:52 (Ref:3638717)   #165
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Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
They can if they own the cars and the IP.

Anything to stop GRM running the V8SC engine, COTF chassis and developing their own panels and aero kit? You know, like a real touring car.


Isn't a 'real' touring car based off a production car?
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