MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[raymond]

[QUOTE=KRDG;3180381]
Show some leadership. You are a VP of this muddled organization (MSNZ).

Mr. KRDG, I have no idea who you are, but obviously you know who I am.
I cannot comment on a public forum with what happens in many discussions, as my comments could always be seen as MSNZ policy and the like.
They are my comments, not MSNZ. It has been strongly suggested many times that I should not be on these forums at all.

The sport is in a state of change, both commercially and governance-wise right now. But this is no different to the late 90's..it fact it seems like groundhog day sometimes. Leadership can and is shown by many involved in the sport. Sorry; I digress...your point is noted and possibly quite valid.
‘

[Icarus_nz]

Raymond, it probably isn't that comfortable for you to be posting on this forum (from either side...) however I for one think it would be a great loss if you stopped.

Obviously it is an important distinction that all and any posts from yourself are your personal opinon.

There is a great deal of very good work carried out by folks in the background within MSNZ. Unfortunately all that effort is undone by some rather high profile gaffs.

It reminds me of that motiational poster about the difficulty of soaring with the eagles when surrounded by turkeys

[socram]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Raymond, it probably isn't that comfortable for you to be posting on this forum (from either side...) however I for one think it would be a great loss if you stopped.

There is a great deal of very good work carried out by folks in the background within MSNZ. Unfortunately all that effort is undone by some rather high profile gaffs.

Totally agree. I have lost count of the emails I have sent to MSNZ without a response of any sort over the years, but at least I can debate the issues as they affect us/me knowing that I'd get a response from one quarter, the H & C Commission. It also gets some much deserved traction when items that have been debated privately, crop up in the end of year report.

Sometimes it pays to wear two hats. The official one and the personal one. We shouldn't stifle personal comments just to protect an organisation that really needs to listen to its members and understand their genuine issues, instead of distancing themselves or simpy ignoring them.

[Southern Man]

I agree with Sollitt's thought recently expressed in the summer series thread.

Amongst other things we need to remember that the world is passing through a period of great financial instability and uncertainty which is a situation that many of you will not have experienced before and it is the major reason world wide why there is a reduction in competitor numbers across all sectors of the sport, be it race, rally or hillclimbs etc you name it and there is a reduction in competitor numbers be it in the UK, Europe, the USA or the Pacific region

Many of the older generations have experienced this previously, just think of what happened around the period of the NZ stockmarket crash during the mid 1980's and the effect that it had on the sport here in NZ and I guess that this is one of the reasons why some are rolling with the punches and are not prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is called life experience.

We need to remember too the effect that the Bay Boomers group had for they were the large group of Officials, competitors and crew members who built up and dominated the sport during the late 70's through until the early parts of the new century. They have moved on and have now become the Historic group of race & rally people and they are still just as strong minded and determined as they ever were.

What does appear to have happened is that the following generations have enjoyed the fruits of that labour and have not done as much to continue the work started so as to leave something worthwhile to pass onto future generations. This habit is not something that is exclusive to sport alone, look at the number of family businesses and family farms that the 3rd & 4th generations have either lost or destroyed.

For sure there is a lot of things that can be and need to be improved with the administration of motorsport in NZ and a lot of it starts right back at your local car club level for that is the foundation on which everything is built.

Guys if we want to build our sport up then we need to start at the bottom and build a solid foundation before we rebuild the structure at the top otherwise the first few shakes it will crumble and fall.

If you want change then become part of the change and get involved but become involved in the right areas first for you achive a lot more by standing in the tent and piddling outside than you ever will standing from outside and piddling into it.

[NickL]

Originally Posted by raymond

Chris, I must point out that my posts on here are my opinion. They are not a representation in any form or way of MSNZ.

Hi, putting a signature on your account here with something to the effect of what you've said above might be a good idea for you... just saying... 8-)

Cheers,
Nick.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Guys if we want to build our sport up then we need to start at the bottom and build a solid foundation before we rebuild the structure at the top otherwise the first few shakes it will crumble and fall.

When donkeys lead, turkeys follow

Originally Posted by Southern Man

If you want change then become part of the change and get involved but become involved in the right areas first for you achive a lot more by standing in the tent and piddling outside than you ever will standing from outside and piddling into it.

Sounding rather sanctimonious there chap. And assuming a lot also.

[CDM]

[QUOTE=raymond;3180789]

Originally Posted by CDM

I was also confused here due to your above post where you (as a rep of MSNZ) seemed to be distancing yourself from theQUOTE]

Chris, I must point out that my posts on here are my opinion. They are not a representation in any form or way of MSNZ.

Yes mine are also just a personal opinion.

I'm sure posters here know that there are MSNZ "happenings" that you can & cant post about. But due to your MSNZ position when you do post, especially on a MSNZ issue, one would assume you are posting correct info.

In this case you seemed to be posting about what was happening as if you definately knew & I guess that was the part that mislead me.

However I couldnt agree more that it would be a shame for you to not to continue to post here as many of these forums do need some MSNZ influence.

[Icarus_nz]

Perhaps it would be useful if the governing body were to sit around a table and play the 'what if?' game

What if we no longer have the trust and respect of our membership?
How would we rebuild trust and respect?

What if peoples perception of our activities is tainted?
How would we go about operating in a clear, professional, non-partisan and transparent manner?

What if we identified what the governing body's core responsibilities and focussed on them?
What mechanisms would we need to put in place to work effectively with those that would pick up the 'slack'?

What if this isn't a case of history repeating itself (supposedly) and the strategy of waiting for the storm to pass and business to resume as normal is flawed?
How do we respond to a new reality?

What if there are people within the organisation who are ill equipped for the position they hold?
How do we support/develop/re-assign them? Is it possible we need to make some hard decisions about the makeup of the organisation?

Help me out people. I'm sure there a few more what if's...

What if the governing body allowed itself some self doubt?...

[Treadbrook]

It's interesting that this thread is still under "MSNZ and TMC - Wheels starting to come off".

The wheels are fine, in fact, nothing seems to stop them.

It's just that the engine is seized and there's no longer any steering.

Happy Christmas everyone. I'm spending mine getting ready to be the NZ Champion in the under 1300cc 500m sprint class that we're organising...

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Treadbrook

. I'm spending mine getting ready to be the NZ Champion in the under 1300cc 500m sprint class that we're organising...

You've scuppered all chance of it being a success by tell people about it. Everybody knows that the model in NZ is to wait til 3 -4 weeks before the event to mention it.

[socram]

Reading various threads on here such as the ST thread, 2013 NZ Series, plus the Aussie V8s and looking at other message boards, I started wondering what the future really holds or what we’d really like to see.
Maybe it is now time for those in power or better still, a few small independent working groups of representatives from various areas, to sit down and with a clean sheet of paper, draft an ideal motorsport set up that appeals to drivers, sponsors, spectators and even officials.
I wonder if other posters have any ideas as to how the various groups, factions, series, circuits etc., should fit?
The sort of thing I am thinking is what classes should be considered essential at the top level and does that need to be a full programme? Or should there possibly be two tier 1 groups running, with say three top classes, in one and three in the other, with the balance made up of various other series/groups, that need not be the same at each meeting?
How many genuine National classes should there be?
How do we ensure decent grids at all top level meetings, as sadly, poor grids are the single biggest turn off for many people. How do we get bigger grids or are there just too many classes that could safely share the track without losing their own identity?
Should classes from the ever growing classic movement be included in higher level “modern” meetings to add variety? As current Formula Ford grids are not now as full as they were, could we run Historic Formula Fords with them with a class/rules split? There must be more old FF’s around than any other single seater class.
What do spectators really want or do we accept that formal circuit racing is not the attraction it once was and lower our crowd expectations?
Are constantly changing technical rulings (roll cages are a classic example) putting people off or just making it too difficult to use many of the cars that are sitting in sheds?
Over to you.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by socram

Reading various threads on here such as the ST thread, 2013 NZ Series, plus the Aussie V8s and looking at other message boards, I started wondering what the future really holds or what we’d really like to see.
Maybe it is now time for those in power or better still, a few small independent working groups of representatives from various areas, to sit down and with a clean sheet of paper, draft an ideal motorsport set up that appeals to drivers, sponsors, spectators and even officials.
I wonder if other posters have any ideas as to how the various groups, factions, series, circuits etc., should fit?
The sort of thing I am thinking is what classes should be considered essential at the top level and does that need to be a full programme? Or should there possibly be two tier 1 groups running, with say three top classes, in one and three in the other, with the balance made up of various other series/groups, that need not be the same at each meeting?
How many genuine National classes should there be?
How do we ensure decent grids at all top level meetings, as sadly, poor grids are the single biggest turn off for many people. How do we get bigger grids or are there just too many classes that could safely share the track without losing their own identity?
Should classes from the ever growing classic movement be included in higher level “modern” meetings to add variety? As current Formula Ford grids are not now as full as they were, could we run Historic Formula Fords with them with a class/rules split? There must be more old FF’s around than any other single seater class.
What do spectators really want or do we accept that formal circuit racing is not the attraction it once was and lower our crowd expectations?
Are constantly changing technical rulings (roll cages are a classic example) putting people off or just making it too difficult to use many of the cars that are sitting in sheds?
Over to you.

A good place to start would be representation at the Sport's governing level. Currently this is restricted to clubs which are Incorporated Societies.
This is not representative of the sport - we need representation from the likes of circuits, racing groups (eg: ST, BMW, F5000 and many others), series organisations, marshals etc. There are so many components of the sport not represented it makes the job of being a "real" governing body very difficult.

[ForumNick]

... an even better idea would be to put line breaks between paragraphs...

Then I'd be able to read it

[socram]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

... an even better idea would be to put line breaks between paragraphs...
Then I'd be able to read it

Sorry. Copied it from Word instead of typing straight in. Will put the line breaks in next time.

Spelling, grammar and punctuation OK for you?

[ForumNick]

[KRDG]

Any idea what they are up to here?


Company Extract

MONTEGO DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED
4005938

Entity Type: NZ Limited Company
Incorporated: 18 Sep 2012
Current Status: Registered
Constitution Filed: Yes
Annual Return Filing Month: August
Company Addresses

Registered Office

69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

Address for Service
69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

Directors

BUDD, Brian Arthur
105 The Ridgeway, Mornington, Wellington, 6021, NZ

CHRISTIE, Wayne John
474 Innes Road, Mairehau, Christchurch, 8052, NZ

Shareholdings
Total Number of Shares: 100
Extensive Shareholdings: No

100 MotorSport New Zealand Incorporated

69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by KRDG

Any idea what they are up to here?


Company Extract

MONTEGO DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED
4005938

Entity Type: NZ Limited Company
Incorporated: 18 Sep 2012
Current Status: Registered
Constitution Filed: Yes
Annual Return Filing Month: August
Company Addresses

Registered Office

69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

Address for Service
69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

Directors

BUDD, Brian Arthur
105 The Ridgeway, Mornington, Wellington, 6021, NZ

CHRISTIE, Wayne John
474 Innes Road, Mairehau, Christchurch, 8052, NZ

Shareholdings
Total Number of Shares: 100
Extensive Shareholdings: No

100 MotorSport New Zealand Incorporated

69 Hutt Road, Pipitea, Wellington, 6035, NZ

Right, MSNZ people (perhaps Raymond can be the one to comment since he seems a good honest chap), since it is not your brief to be sneaky or underhand or any such thing, and I am sure you are not, but would you care to explain to the masses what this little venture is about and what, if any, financial implications it may have on member clubs?

I'm sure it's all above board so there is no need for secrecy.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Right, MSNZ people (perhaps Raymond can be the one to comment since he seems a good honest chap), since it is not your brief to be sneaky or underhand or any such thing, and I am sure you are not, but would you care to explain to the masses what this little venture is about and what, if any, financial implications it may have on member clubs?

I'm sure it's all above board so there is no need for secrecy.

This is simply a company set up to administer the current summer series. it is a seperate cost centre to MSNZ so all can see at the AGCM that the sport did not pay $$$$ to subsidize it.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by raymond

This is simply a company set up to administer the current summer series. it is a seperate cost centre to MSNZ so all can see at the AGCM that the sport did not pay $$$$ to subsidize it.

Thanks Raymond, straight up as usual

[raymond]

Originally Posted by RogerH

A good place to start would be representation at the Sport's governing level. Currently this is restricted to clubs which are Incorporated Societies.
This is not representative of the sport - we need representation from the likes of circuits, racing groups (eg: ST, BMW, F5000 and many others), series organisations, marshals etc. There are so many components of the sport not represented it makes the job of being a "real" governing body very difficult.

Already been happening Ray for the past 18months with respect to Formula Ford. One of the stubbling blocks is the percieved costs of running a F/Ford...an urban myth that is quoted ad-infinitum by those that really dont know.
As for the clean sheet approach, again this has been happening since February 2012 within the sport and recently has included Grag Lancaster and is still progressing. A danger is that us old blokes remember the "good ol' days" which probably werent actually that good and many competitors limit thier thinking to what is good for them directly, not the sport.
Will email you guys a presentation that started this whole process at the MSNZ Strategic Planning meeting.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by raymond

This is simply a company set up to administer the current summer series. it is a seperate cost centre to MSNZ so all can see at the AGCM that the sport did not pay $$$$ to subsidize it.

Are you sure Raymond?

http://www.nzmotorracing.co.nz/motor...v8s-unity.html

Trust and respect remember...

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by raymond

This is simply a company set up to administer the current summer series. it is a seperate cost centre to MSNZ so all can see at the AGCM that the sport did not pay $$$$ to subsidize it.

Even though it may be a separate cost centre it doesn't necessarily mean that it and other related 100% MSNZ owned entities are effectively funded or operationally supported by MSNZ. There is still a concern that MSNZ's ill-concieved venture into commercial motorsport (instead of sticking to governance) is going to cost member clubs and competitors irrespective of how MSNZ "spins" the story.

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Are you sure Raymond?

http://www.nzmotorracing.co.nz/motor...v8s-unity.html

Trust and respect remember...

Well no surprises there, based on the coverage and catch phrases used on the weekend by the commentators....seems they all think TLX is here to stay and will grow....I am sure there is a Tui BillBoard in there somewhere

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Are you sure Raymond?

http://www.nzmotorracing.co.nz/motor...v8s-unity.html

Trust and respect remember...

YES.
Montego Developments is the cost centre for the summer series.
The other company name listed here actually was registered by TMC some years ago but never used.
Hand on heart; my efforts are to get all parties which also includes circuit owners and class reps as well as the three main ones mentioned here to work together for the common goal.
I dont have any hidden agendas and have always said for the past three years that I can remember; to those that bothered to ask me...that MSNZ should stick to governance for the good of all. Jokingly referred to as my socialist leanings...

Try to remian positive, I am!
Crunch

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by raymond

Try to remain positive, I am!
Crunch

The most positive thing that could happen for the sport at this moment is for Brian Budd and Shayne Harris to resign.
Given the things they have said and done over the last year they have ZERO credibility.
If they had a scrap of intelligence and/or any principles they would step down.
Then they could be replaced with people who would filll the role and stick to the job description.