The soft tyres ...

thos · 29 Mar 2009, 17:18 (Ref:2428265)

Does anyone else agree that the situation with the Soft tyres was a bit ridiculous, they seemed good for qualifying, but that was about it. No-one was really able to put in a good session on them, and seemed more of a hindrance than anything.

Would be much better if the teams could run the tyre they want, and not have to run both if it doesnt make them any quicker!

Marbot · 29 Mar 2009, 17:21 (Ref:2428268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thos

Does anyone else agree that the situation with the Soft tyres was a bit ridiculous, they seemed good for qualifying, but that was about it. No-one was really able to put in a good session on them, and seemed more of a hindrance than anything.

Would be much better if the teams could run the tyre they want, and not have to run both if it doesnt make them any quicker!

Would Kubica have been able to catch Vettel had they both been on the same tyres ?

It adds a bit of unpredictability which is far better than watching processions.

**Adam43** · 29 Mar 2009, 17:22 (Ref:2428270)

That is the point, it is about forcing a comprimise and differential between cars.

In the good old days (eg Jerez 1986) there would be many different compounds and you could run what you like and this variation would happen naturally. However that is deemed too expensive (nowadays). Fans deem there should be overtaking so we have to have the variation to cause speed differentials. We had this last year, but fans said it wasn't good enough and the difference wasn't big enough.

Warning, what follows is a rant and does not necessarily represent the opinions of Ten-Tenths.
(To be honest, it probably doesn't even represent the opinions of the poster when they aren't ranting.)

The FIA are a joke and should stop this rule tinkering. Isn't Bernie rich enough. It was Ferrari's fault and anyone who says so is a Webber hater. I have sold my telly.

We now return you to our normal ramblings.

(PS, I'd prefer it naturally, but I like it - it makes F1 harder - to find the comprimise and for drivers to drive in not ideal conditions).

Satorian · 29 Mar 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2428275)

I actually enjoyed that part. During the past seasons I always kept thinking that there should be more of a difference between the two compounds. Without the Vettel-Kubica crash, which already was an interesting hunt in itself, there might have been an exciting last-lap battle for the win.

thos · 29 Mar 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2428276)

Surely it limits strategy options now though too. No more 1-stoppers if you cant run long on the Soft ...

**Adam43** · 29 Mar 2009, 17:31 (Ref:2428278)

That is true, but at most circuits that has been unusual recently anyway. If each lap of fuel fuel makes >0.1s different to your lap time then ones stops are unlikely anyway.

Pingguest · 29 Mar 2009, 17:33 (Ref:2428281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Would Kubica have been able to catch Vettel had they both been on the same tyres ?

It adds a bit of unpredictability which is far better than watching processions.

I think there are a lot better and more natural ways to get that unpredictability.

Marbot · 29 Mar 2009, 17:50 (Ref:2428299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

I think there are a lot better and more natural ways to get that unpredictability.

But it all gets rather expensive doesn't it.

ralf fan · 29 Mar 2009, 19:48 (Ref:2428361)

Thing is the only reason there was so much unpredictability was that some drivers decided to run the tire earlier which was a mistake. In a couple of races time everyone will figure out when the best time to run these tires is and so everyone will run them together and you won't see the kind of difference in performance like we saw yesterday.

browney · 29 Mar 2009, 20:16 (Ref:2428378)

It seems really artificial when watching to have soft tyres that you HAVE to use once. It would be better if you could choose to use them if you want to.

ukaskew · 29 Mar 2009, 20:18 (Ref:2428379)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

some drivers decided to run the tire earlier which was a mistake.

I was actually thinking the opposite during the race. Ferrari gambled and until they crashed/broke it was working quite nicely. If you can get them out of the way over the first 10/15 laps and gain track position whilst doing so, you can then run out of sync with everyone else - potentially on relatively quiet track - and come into play towards the end, especially if a safety car period crops up.

For drivers starting a couple of rows back and beyond (especially if they have KERS) it looks like a viable option. I can't remember if Toyota did the same from the pitlane, but if so it worked for them too.

RaiseYourFist · 29 Mar 2009, 20:26 (Ref:2428382)

BS have done it on purpose, now maybe the drivers will learn how to preserve their tires or they will have to sacrifice their setup!

**gomick** · 29 Mar 2009, 21:47 (Ref:2428438)

I thought it was great, at 1 stage i think Button was doing 28's & Kubica 34's - the GP's should ebb & flow in 09

BootsOntheSide · 29 Mar 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2428441)

I can't see the effect being quite as dramatic in future races. This race being ran at 5pm in Autumn rather than lunchtime in Summer meant it was colder than most races, and I agree that the teams are less likely to start on the softs in future. I'm not sure which tracks they will use the hardest and second-softest tyres, maybe only Monaco and Hungaroring?

I enjoyed it though. It meant that the drivers had to adjust to a variety of situations, and ensured that the field remained close and that there were plenty of surprises. Still, it might matter less at most races - and could create some hard-luck stories if it rains midrace, meaning that some drivers can avoid having to use the much-slower tyres?

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 29 Mar 2009, 22:05 (Ref:2428442)

I have to say that I called for a greater difference in tyres several times ...go on you can search my posts on here to find them if you don't believe me

The difference may be artificial, and it adds another element into team strategy but above all else it makes the drivers have to work with and adjust to totally different handling cars through out the race.

There is no mandate on how long you have to run on each type...
If the safety car deploys at just the right moment there is nothing to stop a driver diving into the pits, taking off the harder, puting on the softer and going out to catch the field. Then come back in when everyone else does and put new hards back on.

The teams knew that the super softs dropped off after 10-12 laps, so why make a driver run with them for 20?

JeremySmith · 29 Mar 2009, 22:24 (Ref:2428462)

Too soft...

johnh875 · 29 Mar 2009, 23:35 (Ref:2428506)

I think it is working. I also agree with ukaskew, I would be running the tyre at the start with a short first stint. If the harder tyre was worse in a race situation then perhaps a shorter middle stint?

Burnsie · 30 Mar 2009, 00:00 (Ref:2428531)

One reservation I have about the new tyre compounds rule is that luck is bound to play a crucial role in deciding the outcome of some races. When a Safety Car is deployed, those on the option tyre and who are inside their pit window will benefit greatly, perhaps at the expense of other drivers who had been performing well on the track.

Personally I'm undecided about the rule. Yes I love the fact that at some stage of the race, all of the drivers will have to perform in conditions that are less than ideal, and of course the element of unpredictability which that brings; but on the other hand I would prefer to see positions won on merit, rather than lost by a handicap.

Pingguest · 30 Mar 2009, 06:59 (Ref:2428706)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

But it all gets rather expensive doesn't it.

Not necessarily. One set of tyres for the entire race might actually reduce costs.

VIVA GT · 30 Mar 2009, 07:29 (Ref:2428715)

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnsie

One reservation I have about the new tyre compounds rule is that luck is bound to play a crucial role in deciding the outcome of some races. When a Safety Car is deployed, those on the option tyre and who are inside their pit window will benefit greatly, perhaps at the expense of other drivers who had been performing well on the track.

Personally I'm undecided about the rule. Yes I love the fact that at some stage of the race, all of the drivers will have to perform in conditions that are less than ideal, and of course the element of unpredictability which that brings; but on the other hand I would prefer to see positions won on merit, rather than lost by a handicap.

I'd have to say that with, or without the big difference between the two tyre compounds, luck usually still does play a crucial role in the result, for many reasons, including Safety Car situations.
Personally, I liked the fact that there was such a difference between the two compounds, it added another dimension to the race, and meant that the drivers and the teams had to use their brains and react accordingly.

Marbot · 30 Mar 2009, 07:58 (Ref:2428737)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Not necessarily. One set of tyres for the entire race might actually reduce costs.

Maybe they'll have that option next season.

Marbot · 30 Mar 2009, 08:09 (Ref:2428745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnsie

but on the other hand I would prefer to see positions won on merit, rather than lost by a handicap.

All the drivers that chose soft tyres at the beginning of the race were handicapped,but it was part of a strategy that was hoping for a safety car.This duly happened,but not while they were on their soft tyres.But no matter because the field was bunched up anyway and all advantages of the hard tyre was lost to those who hadn't used the soft tyre.Swings and roundabouts.

Had there been no safety car,all things being equal,the drivers on the softer tyres would have been left behind on the first stint (which is what happened),but would have caught the cars in front on their final stint (which actually again is what happened),and so the race is still worth watching all the way through because if the option tyre performs poorly (Rosberg) you can have a really good finish.

Pingguest · 30 Mar 2009, 08:10 (Ref:2428749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maybe they'll have that option next season.

Unlikely, because Bridgestone wants us to speak it about their tyres. Without the tyre war, the mandatory compound change is the only way to achieve that.

Marbot · 30 Mar 2009, 08:15 (Ref:2428760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Unlikely, because Bridgestone wants us to speak it about their tyres. Without the tyre war, the mandatory compound change is the only way to achieve that.

They may say to the teams 'you can use the race distance tyre (red stripe ?) if you want,but otherwise things are the same as last season'.

Razor · 30 Mar 2009, 08:16 (Ref:2428761)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Not necessarily. One set of tyres for the entire race might actually reduce costs.

Didn't they trial that back in 2005?

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