Audi LMP1 Discussion

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I also find it strange and ironic that the enhanced mobility LMP2 car that Audi are supporting for LM is a Pescarolo/Morgan with a Nissan engine in it, especially after the threats of lawsuits and countersuits between Audi and Nissan over the use of the Q name being part of each companies' SUV line ups and is now used for Infiniti sedans.

Let's not forget that the Porsche 911 was originally designated the 901 until Peugeot vetoed the use of the name. Strange, the things that big manufacturers get their knickers in a twist about.

[ederss7]

Does the new R18 have air conditioning? I wonder if it could be related to the cooling of batteries or something else. The first R18 didn't have, I don't know about the recent versions.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by ederss7

Does the new R18 have air conditioning? I wonder if it could be related to the cooling of batteries or something else. The first R18 didn't have, I don't know about the recent versions.

Air conditioning as in controlling cockpit temperature? All coupes are mandated to have that now (and IIRC have been for a while, originally the 908 was allowed a slightly larger restrictor than the R10 so it could incorporate air con without losing power...) so the R18 would definitely have it.

[chernaudi]

That could explain why there's no air intake on the windshield. But the doors have exit ducts/louvers. In the case, something goes out, but how does it get in?

[ederss7]

If I'm not mistaken, the first R18 had a ventilation system that could keep temperatures low enough, so Audi didn't need to use air conditioning.

[chernaudi]

That's what the holes in the rear deck above the engine were for as well as the windshield air intakes. The new R18 doesn't seem to have either, and the inlet in the nose box is too small to cool the hybrid system/power steering and provide much air circulation past the stuff that's near the front wheel centerline IMO.

[Japanese Samurai]

In the Motor Fan Illustrated technical seminar,
Hiroshi Yuchi (Toyota Techno Craft, Ex-Chief designer of Strakka Dome S103) analyzed the monocoque shape of 2016 spec R18.
http://serakota.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2016-04-25

*R18 introduced high nose, so the monocoque roof must be the square shape because of the frontal view template regulations.
*Door hinges of R18 might be installed in the roof to make the cross-sectional area of the monocoque smaller.
*Strakka Dome S103 had originally the design which installs door hinge in the roof to make cross-sectional area of monocoque smaller.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

That's what the holes in the rear deck above the engine were for as well as the windshield air intakes. The new R18 doesn't seem to have either, and the inlet in the nose box is too small to cool the hybrid system/power steering and provide much air circulation past the stuff that's near the front wheel centerline IMO.

It could well be that the cockpit cooling air intake(s) is(are) now located under the nose, below the driver's legs. The below picture published in RCE's recent article on the R18 doesn't show much in that respect, except making it reasonably clear that cockpit cooling is unlikely to be routed through the nose:


BTW, one may actually wonder how the front MGU which sits rearward of the power steering is actually cooled. Looking at the picture, and considering that the MGU apparently sits low in the monocoque structure (based on the location of the drive shafts), it may well be that a cooling inlet is provided on the underside of the monocoque structure just in front of where the MGU is located.

[WhatIsWatt]

The R18 does not have an air conditioning system, it would be too big and heavy and the regulations are quite relaxed when it comes to cockpit temperature. Sufficient cooling can be achieved just by directing ambient air and using small fans inside the cockpit.

The MGU is, as in all LMP1 cars, water-cooled and does not need a cooling inlet.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by WhatIsWatt

The R18 does not have an air conditioning system, it would be too big and heavy and the regulations are quite relaxed when it comes to cockpit temperature. Sufficient cooling can be achieved just by directing ambient air and using small fans inside the cockpit.

The MGU is, as in all LMP1 cars, water-cooled and does not need a cooling inlet.

The regulations are quite lax as they talk to "maximum" cockpit temperatures when the car is moving and are generally a fixed amount (7 C) above ambient with no top end cap on very hot days. They don't say the car must have an active air conditioning system. If normal airflow in/out works then that is all the regulations require. Do the drivers wear cool suits when the ambient temp is high?

However... even if components are liquid/water cooled, the heat has to be rejected somewhere, so there is going to be a water to air radiator and related inlet/outlet for air somewhere.

Richard

[rich07]

So I've been dealing with a customer at work all day who's name isn't Chris Reinke but is very similar so I've started calling him Chris Reinke because every time I see his name I think of Chris Reinke of Audi fame lol

He's corrected me a few times and yet I haven't stopped mixing the two names up.

Nearly as bad as when I was in uni and we had a Learning Management System (LMS) no guesses what I could only think of when that topic popped up

[chernaudi]

I know that this has been talked about in the Toyota thread, but did Audi manage to use 6th gear at all at Silverstone? If not, then I'd argue that Audi overgeared their car excepting the more unique aspects of Silverstone (mostly fast corners, very few slow corners, and short straights compared to most other WEC tracks). Even with a 6 speed, Silverstone is probably a hard track to set up gearing for. I wonder how Audi did it in 2013. Of course, Audi also have a ton more hybrid power than in 2013-15.

[carbon_titanium]

if is true as someone else here stated that this year audi has a 6 speed gear box, very likely 6th will be upshifted only >300km/h... we could see it only at le mans, spa and fuji maybe.
Last season I remeber at spa #7 and #8 were able to reach top speeds close to 310km/h at the end of kammel straight, and according to onboard telemetry both of them were in 6th. If next week, both audi's will remain in 5th with a speed close to 300km/h, well... surely there isn't a 7th for them.

[ederss7]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't use 6th gear. A telemetry from the 2012 race shows that they use short gears and therefore the 6th.

[WhatIsWatt]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

However... even if components are liquid/water cooled, the heat has to be rejected somewhere, so there is going to be a water to air radiator and related inlet/outlet for air somewhere.

No, the radiator sits in the sidepod like the engine radiators do. It does not make sense to put them in the cockpit for various reasons.

[WhatIsWatt]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

if is true as someone else here stated that this year audi has a 6 speed gear box, very likely 6th will be upshifted only >300km/h... we could see it only at le mans, spa and fuji maybe.
Last season I remeber at spa #7 and #8 were able to reach top speeds close to 310km/h at the end of kammel straight, and according to onboard telemetry both of them were in 6th. If next week, both audi's will remain in 5th with a speed close to 300km/h, well... surely there isn't a 7th for them.

Audi does only run 6 gears this year, see http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-16032205.html

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by WhatIsWatt

Audi does only run 6 gears this year, see http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-16032205.html

well, premising that my life doesn't change if audi gb has 6, 7 or 2 speeds... I usually don't trust official figures claims, but again very likely this year audi has 6 speed. Peace.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by WhatIsWatt

No, the radiator sits in the sidepod like the engine radiators do. It does not make sense to put them in the cockpit for various reasons.

Actually we agree. I am not sure where you felt I said the radiator would be inside the cockpit? That makes absolutely no sense. Why dump heat into the cockpit?

My point was that just because something is water cooled doesn't mean it doesn't need to radiate the heat into something. And the only "something" is the air around the car (short of having a box of ice water like for a cool suit). So there are one or more water to air heat exchanges (aka radiators) and related paths for air (ie. inlet/outlet vents). As you say... in the sidepod is a good place as any. But sometimes there are separate vents vs everything using one. Which I think was the original question... which hasn't been answer!

Richard

[TF110]

Audi trying to get more favorable rules for their diesel in the new regs? http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/m...-11068459.html Seems they feel 10mj for petrol would leave them behind since adding more hybrid would make them overweight. I'd say try a smaller engine.

[chernaudi]

I'd say get rid of EOT and the ERS incentive. Only way that Audi can go smaller is if they run a gasoline engine, and Audi are more or less confirmed to be running a diesel engine until at least 2020. This is partially forced by Porsche running a gasoline engine.

Diesel engines have to be heavier because of them using compression ignition vs spark ignition. There's a big difference between using an electrical spark to ignite an air/fuel mixture vs compressing it until it explodes.

The rules in racing over the years have started to kill the variety in powertrain design anyways. Where was all this complaint about one engine type being dominant over another when Audi were the only ones seriously running a LMP900 with a forced induction engine with the R8, let alone DFI?

[JoestForEver]

The ERS incentive ambush is already appalling as a bad example. It should've been get rid of long time ago.

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[cokata]

Without ERS incentive it would make no sense to go for a big hybrid class. It would be better just to save the weight and go for a bigger and more efficient engine and and have more weight to put as ballast. Also the burden of a hybrid failure would be much smaller.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Keep the ERS incentive. Get rid of the KTF. Ensure a proper "balance of weight" between diesel and petrol engines. And let them race.

[carbon_titanium]

agree, without ERS incentice, it simply doesn't make sense the actual tech rules!
maybe audi too should follow f1 engine manufacturers chimera... and project a gasoline engine that basically works as a diesel (injection pressure so insanely high that gasoline won't need sparks for the ignition)

[GasperG]

Clearly some of you don't understand what ERS classes are. It actually gives less engine power the higher the class, but some of you insist that it would be better performance vise to run just a dead ballast, what a bullshit.

Just give all the teams 120 MJ of fuel per lap, fuel flow restriction and min weight and then just wait and see what happens. Oh wait, then ACO would be totally of of control, oh no