Stoddart:"We could lose half the grid"

[Valve Bounce]

Stoddart made this comment in relation to the escalation of costs. In fact, F1 could end up with only 6 teams being competitive; I said this in another thread recently.
Let's look at F1 from a distance. F1 never used to be the pinnacle of motor racing from an engineering viewpoint. There was a time when on-car advertising was banned. At one stage F1 cars were simple things, many used a 1.5 litre 154 BHP engine from a water pump, and only Ferrari could afford to have a more sophisticated and powerful V6. There was not that much you could spend money on to develop, and this significant point kept costs down. These cars were a far cry from the Le Mans racers where many of the F1 guys also drove. Still, all the best drivers competed in F1 because they knew that if they won the championship, they would be recognised as the best of the best.
The only things that they could spend money on to develop were gearboxes (many of which kept breaking), tuned exhausts and valve timing, suspension systems to improve road holding, then came the V8's, fuel injection, monocoque bodies, wings, and so on. The significant point then was that improvements relied more on innovation rather than sheer costs. There really were not that many directions to spend money on to improve cars at that time.
Now things are different. We have engine management systems that control the operation of the valves, fuel mixes, spark, gearbox, clutch, diff, engine braking, launch control, TRAX, and God knows what else, and all this has to be integrated. Testing goes for hundreds of laps per day, all in an effort to fine tune and integrate the myriad of variables in the illusive chase of that final tenths of a second off lap times.
Aerodynamics have become increasingly complicated that hundreds of hours are necessary in expensive wind tunnels to enable these to operate in conjunction with suspension and tyres also in the illusive chase of that tenth of a second off lap times.
The teams are not making any money out of F1 anyway, and have to rely on car manufacturers, advertisers, and TV income distributions to stay afloat. While Fiat, BMW, Daimler Benz, Renault, Ford, Toyota and perhaps Honda might be able to sustain such expenses by reaping rewards from the sale of cars from their factories, the other teams do not have this luxury. Arrows, Jordan, Minardi, are in dire straits, and I don't know where Sauber stands financially. However, it is not impossible that the latter four teams could fold from financial starvation, leaving the eight factory teams on the grid. Of these, lack of technical success could see the slower two teams trailing off. You could call me a doomsayer, but the reality is, this is happening right now, with teams spending money like there is no tomorrow just to try to get to the front half of the grid. Unless there are very serious restraints on expenditure, some teams will go bust. The way to prevent this is not by simply limiting cars to one engine per race; there needs to be a brake on development expenditure. AND the only way to achieve this is to limit the direction that developments can take place.
So we go back to my repeated suggestion - ban all on-board computers. This will severely curtail the many directions that teams are developing and testing their cars in. This may be the only way to save F1.

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[Jukebox]

I doubt that Sauber is in financial trouble as their two main sponsors are financially strong. Petronas recorded an all time high profits for the year 2001 after the economic turmoil in 1998 and are about to raise USD2 billion bond in the near future.

As long as there are winning points, that is good enough to make the sponsors happy as their brandname gets wide coverage. That's the reason for sponsorship deals. And Sauber are making Petronas extremely happy with their feats currently.

[Liz]

Yes, once upon a time everything was simpler. My parents' first house was smaller than the apartment I live in now, and they thought it was completely adequate. The Brady Bunch had one bathroom for about 12 people. Televisions used to have only 4 channels and they didn't broadcast 24 hours a day. And about that time was when F1 was simpler and cheaper.

We can't repeal the 20th century, unfortunately. Perhaps the best thing for F1 is that it fall with a crash and then it can be rebuilt in a more fan-friendly fashion and maybe with rules that everyone has to follow.

Jordan, Arrows and BAR are as good as gone already. Minardi will continue to teeter. But for some people as long as one Ferrari continues to win all the races, F1 will survive.

[calais]

whenever a team boss comes out whining about escalating costs, they are obviously not thinking of the future of the sport, but their own agenda.
EJ is a good example.the way he is sucking up to bernie and max lately makes you wonder

[f1manoz]

Ban all electronics, on-board computer data loggins systems

Return to manual gearboxes

Limit testing to only winter time. No testing during the season

Standard slick tyres, none of this chemically advanced stuff

Limit aerodynamic efficiency of cars

Two engine limit - one for practice and qualifying, the other for the race

[Nicholas]

according to www.grandprix1.com part of the Concorde Agreement states that you agree to run 3 cars when the number of teams falls below a certain (they didn't say how many) number. Which would help to some extent, but only as a last resort. But if this is true, why did Mad Max say that they could run f3000s?

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by f1manoz
Ban all electronics, on-board computer data loggins systems

Return to manual gearboxes

Limit testing to only winter time. No testing during the season

Standard slick tyres, none of this chemically advanced stuff

Limit aerodynamic efficiency of cars

Two engine limit - one for practice and qualifying, the other for the race

I totally agree with you on this concept.

Liz, what you say is too true. I can remember when I didn't have TV here in Brisbane, and when it first came out, my flat mates and I used to walk up to the corner in South Brisbane and sit outside the Electrical Goods store on a soap box and watch 77 Sunset Strip, and also that French lawyer Perrier Maison. We shared two rooms between the three of us, bathroom outside, and we were happy. Nobody had a car, we took trams or if too late in saying goodnight to our girlfriends, we walked home. Hell, those were happy days!!! Our Christmas dinner one year consisted of cornflakes and milk, and water melon - that's all we had as the cheque was delayed by the holiday. Funny how I never looked on those years as difficult or lacking.
I remembr John Cooper winning races with a car that had two structural protrusions behind the driver that ended in mid air and did nothing. Thin wheels, bugger all horse power, and everyone racing just as seriously as they do today.
No!! I am not advocating that we go back to such a retrograde period in F1. I am just pointing out that even in the period of diminished mechanical sophistication, F1 was just as competitive. We had the top drivers racing around trying as hard to win as the drivers do today.
I am going one step further and asking posters here whether and how expenditure can be drastically reduced to save the llower teams so that we can have 11 teams on the grid at least, although many here have expressed the desire to see 12.
This unbridled expenditure, as pointed out by Bernie, will cause the demise of several teams, and for once, I think that Bernie can see the outcome.
What I advocate is a simpler form of F1, with not much less power available, where drivers can display their ability to fullness, and which would cost considerably less, and which would save F1 from a depleted competition.

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[Nicholas]

Sorry I meant www.grandprix.com for my last post.

[EERO]

Bouncey, this is clearly a crucial issue and I think Stoddard is absolutely correct. The prospects for the future are dire. I fully agree that costs need to be trimmed- not just maintained. I came of age during the 70's as an F1 fan. Surely, by the standards of the time, it was technically sophisticated-but it was also hugely compettitive. In the last ten seasons, there have been (by my quick count) ten different race winners. In the 70's and 80's, it wasn't uncommon for there to be ten winners in a season. Unfortunately, I think you and I are a minority here who believe that the driver's Championship is more important than the Constructor's. But when there are four teams left, and one of them is walkiing away with everything, I'll probably stop watching.


Honda, Renault, BMW, and Mercedes have gone away before, there is no reason to doubt that they won't again. Ford will not continue to suffer such bad results before retreating or at least dialing back they're commitment. I've been warning about this for ages and it seems that even the player are worried as well. Whenever Factories come to dominate a series, one team rises to the top and kills off the competition. It will happen in F1 as it did in the Can-Am, the Trans Am, The World Manufacture's Championship in (Ferrari, Ford, Porsche, Ferrari, Matra, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Porsche, Porsche etc).

To cut costs: Limit testing, if teams are wiling to run third and even fourth drivers in test teams-why not ban test teams per se, teams could run third cars in races as test mules.

Limit on board computers.

Return to Manual gearboxes and driver activated clutches, (Real driver shift)

Limit RPM, so that a cheap customerengine becomes a viable reality.

[DNQ]

EERO...you've hit the nail on the head. Manufacturers controlling the sport will only hurt F1 in the same way that international sports car racing has been knocked in the last decade.

[Tristan]

Ban batteries and dynamos (and solar panels if you think you're clever).

I have to disagree re: testing, peurely because I don't like the idea of a third "test car". Keep racing for racing, testing for testing.

[Nicholas]

I thought that extra practise/track time session for the smaller teams during the GP weekend would have been a good idea.