"Better than half the excrement they watch in Europe" - Page 5

garbo6 · 9 Apr 2006, 12:47 (Ref:1574542)

^^ Was that Ferrari limited as well.

In 04 Stoddart qualified with a 22.7 at Adelaide in a Lamborghini Diablo G... and Simonsen did a 1:23.4713 in a Ferrari 550 GT in qualifying.

Simonsen did a 23.2248 in Race 1, and a 23.1533 in Race 3 in a car that if i recall correctly was restricted a reasonable amount.

The fastest race lap for the V8's was a 1:23.3754 for Ambrose in Race 2, so they weren't the fastest touring cars at Adelaide that weekend.

Robert Ryan · 9 Apr 2006, 20:15 (Ref:1574837)

Quote:

so they weren't the fastest touring cars at Adelaide that weekend.

Ferrari's and Lambo's strictly speaking are not touring cars

**FIRE** · 9 Apr 2006, 20:18 (Ref:1574841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Ferrari's and Lambo's strictly speaking are not touring cars

They are Grand Touring cars.

But I understand what you mean and I agree.

**Woolley** · 9 Apr 2006, 22:06 (Ref:1574960)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS500

Woolley, the V8's aren't all that fast in 2003 JB qualified his NGT 360 GT in 1.23.7 this year skaife qualified on pole with a 1.21.9 and in 2003 pole was a 1.22.3. If they raced at Le Mans the only surprise would be for the people here in Australia when they see that a 450hp 3.6L ferrari is just as fast as a 5L 670hp SUPERCAR!

Ah, I may not have made myself clear there. I meant to say that it's a shame the drivers are not represented at Le Mans, when drivers from many other sportscar, single seater of tin-top categories are.

RotorFan · 9 Apr 2006, 23:23 (Ref:1575061)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Moyse

V8 Supercars Suck!!!!!!!!! ... because the aussies got all tetchy when Non-aussie cars entered and thrashed the pants of Ford and Holden. Changing the rules/Banning Nissan and BMW because their cars were too quick for their aussie counter parts.

Few would disagree with you.

Its not just the V8 Supercars that have done that though. What about the rotary being banned from categories the world over? As a fan of rotaries thats very frustrating (a clearly superior technology being banned because thats easier than raising the bar to compete with them).

MRJUCY · 9 Apr 2006, 23:50 (Ref:1575079)

Clearly superior technology

c'mon we know you like them but just like everything else they have their advantages & disadvantages otherwise every car would have them & even Mazda only bung them in one model.

RotorFan · 10 Apr 2006, 00:19 (Ref:1575100)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

Clearly superior technology

c'mon we know you like them but just like everything else they have their advantages & disadvantages otherwise every car would have them & even Mazda only bung them in one model.

I could go on and on about it to explain why but it'd be too far off topic and you wouldn't shut me up

Dingo · 10 Apr 2006, 00:44 (Ref:1575116)

Ultimately the decision to make the ATCC Ford and Holden seems to have had nothing to do with actual motorsport, and everything to do with politics...AFAIK Ford and Holden merely wanted bragging rights about beating the other manufacturer - they didn't want to admit defeat to a third one...

racer69 · 10 Apr 2006, 05:21 (Ref:1575186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

When those lower class cars pass they actually pass on the track.

It's worth noting that in the 'lower' classes they have to do their passing on the track, and the racing is much better for it.

In V8Supercar races which are blighted by contrived pitstops, they can all wait to overtake during the pitstops....how exciting

RotorFan · 10 Apr 2006, 06:39 (Ref:1575210)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

It's worth noting that in the 'lower' classes they have to do their passing on the track, and the racing is much better for it.

In V8Supercar races which are blighted by contrived pitstops, they can all wait to overtake during the pitstops....how exciting

There was more passing done on the infield grass in the HQ/Kingswood race at Calder than on the track...

That was a very messy race, even for HQs.

peckstar · 10 Apr 2006, 10:41 (Ref:1575423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

It's worth noting that in the 'lower' classes they have to do their passing on the track, and the racing is much better for it.

In V8Supercar races which are blighted by contrived pitstops, they can all wait to overtake during the pitstops....how exciting

ah the sound of a dripping tap, how monotoneous, you really should come up with something new and factual.

No pit stops at GP and we saw passing including for the lead.

Pit stops at clipsal and we still saw passing including for the lead.

It time for you to fix the broken record

D.R.T. · 10 Apr 2006, 13:10 (Ref:1577575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

ah the sound of a dripping tap, how monotoneous, you really should come up with something new and factual.

No pit stops at GP and we saw passing including for the lead.

Pit stops at clipsal and we still saw passing including for the lead.

Yes and what a novelty it was at a v8 race, I had to catch my breath 2 lead changes at two events.

Racers point is a valid one, pit stops and reverse grid concept is an indication that the organisers TEGA/ Avesco dont think the racing is up to standard (whose ever standards those are)

They are not the only category to do this, but I do have to giggle when people make statements to the effect that V8's have the best racing the world.

Robert Ryan · 10 Apr 2006, 19:14 (Ref:1577914)

Quote:

They are not the only category to do this, but I do have to giggle when people make statements to the effect that V8's have the best racing the world.

DRT not too many people share your views on what is great racing, otherwise those catergories , that you love would be the dominate catergories here.

racer69 · 12 Apr 2006, 04:05 (Ref:1579138)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

ah the sound of a dripping tap, how monotoneous, you really should come up with something new and factual.

No pit stops at GP and we saw passing including for the lead.

Pit stops at clipsal and we still saw passing including for the lead.

It time for you to fix the broken record

Errr, doesn't the races at the GP prove my point? There were no pitstops, so they had to do the racing and passing on the track, or do you not read posts?

One pass for the (actual) lead at the Clipsal in 500 kilometres of racing, Woohoo!!! Or are you also including Todd Kelly taking the lead in race 2 because Lowndes and McConville were having an accident? The point that should be made is that Jamie Whincup didn't pass for the lead on track, he got passed in the pits. Is this right? I can stomach it in the enduro's, but in a sprit race come on......

Robert Ryan · 12 Apr 2006, 05:26 (Ref:1579157)

Quote:

One pass for the (actual) lead at the Clipsal in 500 kilometres of racing, Woohoo!!! Or are you also including Todd Kelly taking the lead in race 2 because Lowndes and McConville were having an accident? The point that should be made is that Jamie Whincup didn't pass for the lead on track, he got passed in the pits. Is this right? I can stomach it in the enduro's, but in a sprit race come on......
__________________

There was passing left right and centre through the field..or was I watching a different race?

storyline · 12 Apr 2006, 07:11 (Ref:1579191)

Actually - if you go and check the lap charts you will find that nearly 90% of place changes took palce because a car pitted and others made up positions that way

Race 1 http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...006.ADEL.R13.L
Race 2 http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...006.ADEL.R23.L

Robert Ryan · 12 Apr 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1579357)

Storyline, this was in the actual race, not after a pitstop.

storyline · 12 Apr 2006, 11:52 (Ref:1579380)

Like I said - look at the lap charts - there may appear to have been plenty of positional changes taking place, but the lap charts tell you a completely different story.

How many, for instance, of that 'passing left right and centre' you saw was merely the leading cars passing lapped cars? Maybe you have a different idea of racing to me, but that doesn't count as 'passing' - it counts as lapping, not fighting for position.

D.R.T. · 12 Apr 2006, 15:32 (Ref:1579541)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

DRT not too many people share your views on what is great racing, otherwise those catergories , that you love would be the dominate catergories here.

We arent talking about other categories here, Robert. V8's havent got to where they are built on how good their racing is. If the racing was 'that' good, explain to me the need for reverse grids and the occassional 'Nascar' yellow.

Robert Ryan · 12 Apr 2006, 19:40 (Ref:1579706)

Quote:

V8's havent got to where they are built on how good their racing is. If the racing was 'that' good, explain to me the need for reverse grids and the occassional 'Nascar' yellow.
__________________

DRT that is illogical..why have they got to where they are?

storyline · 12 Apr 2006, 21:56 (Ref:1579842)

Simple - a good management company (no one is denying that) and the lack of any other suitable category with decent management.

Just because something is popular does not mean it is 'good'

monaroCountry · 12 Apr 2006, 22:17 (Ref:1579867)

Good management doesnt get record crowds through the gate.

storyline · 12 Apr 2006, 22:58 (Ref:1579904)

Good management knows how to market the product - what they cannot continue to do, however, is maintain those numbers when the product doesn't live up to its hype or starts to produce something that looks, on the outside, like the product they wat but when the shine starts to disappear the underlying substance is found to be wanting or sub-standard.

Scott Moyse · 13 Apr 2006, 00:39 (Ref:1579957)

I think the undeniable consensus here is that V8's have probelms and they need to be sorted, the show is slipping and it needs somethign major to spice it up. And we all know that involves allowing other brands of cars to enter, and not some other rubbish (Much better word

) regualtion. Somethign sensible and constructive

Robert Ryan · 13 Apr 2006, 01:19 (Ref:1579978)

Quote:

Just because something is popular does not mean it is 'good'

Basic principle of Management, you cannot make your company profitable if your product is lousy.

Quote:

Simple - a good management company (no one is denying that)

First time I have Tony Cochrane and V8Supercars actually been called that by one of their detractors.

Quote:

what they cannot continue to do, however, is maintain those numbers

In relation to the CLIPSAL they are doing that.

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