Unfulfilled Talent

[Marshal]

This was prompted by a conversation in the F1 forum with Mr. Mallett, on Stefan Belloff. It got me thinking about other drivers who never got to express their talent at the top level, and wonder if any of the rest of you have memories of those who were before my time. Guys like Bertrand Fabi, killed at Goodwood in '86 testing a WSR F3 car after dominating FF2000 the year before, Steven South who missed out on top level racing in europe through foolishness/niavety, and then suffered career ending injuries in Can-Am in the USA. From previous generation guys like Tony Brise, Roger Williamson, Chris Bristow and Alan Stacey. There must be many others, who do you remember and why?

[marcus]

stefan Bellof probably takes the cake..bag fulls of talent cut short by tragedy.

Andre Ribero (Indycar)..on top of his game ready to challenge for championship..goes home to run a business ???

Allan mcNish..again heaps of talent never given an F1 car to show what he can do..maybe his time is yet to come with Toyota hopefully ?

Paul Warwick...obviously a very good driver sadly died before the whole world knew it.

Stepahane proulx (sp) from what I have heard he was a good driver but lost his life to AIDS

loads more but mind is blank right now.

[angst]

I think, along with Bellof (a huge amount of talent he had) Gilles Villeneuve was the biggest unfulfilled talent. Just as he was getting a competitive car it was all taken away. Terrible. Bertrand Fabi was brilliant in his early days and looked very quick in F3 testing - then of course the testing accident took that away. de Angelis I think was coming into the best form of his career (he'd managed to push Senna a few times in his season against him). Marc Surer was always unlucky with two terrible crashes which threw what could have been great F1 career completely off course. Stephen South looked very impressive. Johnny Herbert would have been one of Britain's best had his feet and legs not been damaged so badly. JJLehto's accident happened at a crucial time in his career, same with Karl Wendlinger (who had the beating of TGF and Frentzen in F3). Paul Warwick was looking better and better with every race. Didier Pironi, though I disliked him after his part in Villeneuve's demise. Michel Trolle. They're just the ones I can remember from my time watching F1. Oh, and Gunnar Nilsson of course, and Carlos Pace, and the rejuvenated Ronnie Peterson and Patrick Depailler.
There have been quite a few really, and that's only the ones who accidents played a part with. There are many others who I can't figure out why they never made it further. The Ferte brothers, Mike Thackwell, Martini, Capelli, Boutsen (who looked brilliant in his eary days), Johansson, the Fabi brothers (particularly Corrado), Moreno....and on I could go.

[Marc C]

I would quote some names of drivers who disappeared before they could start in F1: it's name from the sixties or the seventies:
Robby Weber, a F3 (F2 ?) and sportscar hope (killed at the 1967 Le Mans practice), Eric de Keyn (a Belgian hope, the "rival" of Jacky Ickx, killed at Spa in 1967), Dennis Dayan and Jean Luc Salomon (killed both in a F3 race at Rouen en 1970), Gerry Birrel (F2 driver killed at Rouen in 1973), ...

[Kpy]

May I mention the name of Bill Ivy. I remember seeing him at Thruxton on Easter Monday '69. He had a second-hand '68 Brabham BT23C which he proceded to put on pole for his heat with a time identical to that of JYS. Only Rindt set a faster practice time, and he was in the other heat. It was only his second ever race on four wheels. He came fourth in the heat and ran sixth in the final until the engine went bang. I was keeping an eye on John Watson who arrived with a reputation as a coming man, but Bill Ivy WOW!!

I think he was a bit wild - he qualified third at the Nurburgring on a damp track, a stupendous feat on the 14 plus mile circuit but managed to crash in the race.

He'd retired from motorcycle racing at the end of '68, but was tempted back by Jawa. It was on one of those machines that an engine seizure threw him into a wall practicing for the E German 'bike GP in July '69. He hadn't yet reached his 27th birthday.

[Leif Snellman]

Of the prewar drivers one can mention Guy Moll and Aldo Marazza.

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to the forum, Leif.

This topic is certainly raising a few memories.

Another was Archie Scott Brown. Now there's a story.

[Ray Bell]

Nobody's mentioned Ricardo Rodriguez, I don't think...

And then there was Gary Hocking, who many considered had a lot of the star quality about him, and Tony Brise.

[angst]

Welcome to the forum Leif. Great site you've got, I've learned alot about the Grands Prix (and other racing) from the 30's that I didn't know before, and alot about the people involved. I only went through the drivers I could recall from my time watching motor racing, and I forgot Hans-Georg Burger and Markus Hottiger. Guy Moll, Aldo Marazzi, Richard Seaman and what about Johnny Wakefield or Armand Hug. I get the impression, from what I know of him that Walter Baumer was alot better than his brief appearances suggest, as was Paul Pietsch.
Tim Mayer was another who was killed before he made it to F1 ( I believe he was in line for a drive with Cooper for '64). Jean-Pierre Wimille, not only killed before the WDC started but also lost all those years taken up by the war. Imagine what alot of drivers could have achieved during this period, driver's whose careers were either just starting or in full flow when war broke out.

[Leif Snellman]

Thanks guys,

One wonder of course if Cevert would have been able to fight for the 1974 championship as first driver for Tyrrell.

[moody]

..there are of course literally hundreds who for one reason or another including the ultimate price never fulfilled their promise...but some who occur to me as having exceptional talent are..

...Bo Pittard
...Tony Brooks
...Stuart Lewis-Evans
...Stefan Bellof
...Johnny Servoz-Gavin
...Greg Moore
...and how much more would Senna and Clark have achieved

...I leave you with a quote from a hero of mine.

...to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the Gift
Steve Prefontaine (USA Runner died in a car accident in his prime 1975)

[Murph]

For us Yanks........ B. J. Swanson

Here is a quote from Pete Lyons review of the 1975 F5000 season in the states.

"IT IS EXQUISITELY RARE. It has happened only once or twice in a generation of American road racing. A driver comes from nowhere and is almost immediately running with the best. There have been others before, Dan Gurney, Mark Donaohue. This time it was B. J. Swnason."

In only his 3rd race in F5000 (and his first trip ever to Watkins Glen) Swanson qualified 4th behind Andretti, Redman, and Jarrier. This was only his 3rd professional race and he was faster than Al Unser, Jackie Oliver, David Hobbs, Graham McRae, and Warwick Brown. He came in 3rd by holding off Jarier.

The next race was at Road America....here he qualified 3rd behind Mario & Redman.

He had a crash on lap one at Mid-Ohio (his 5th race) caused by a jammed throttle. He died 3 days later.

take care, all

Murph

[garyegrant]

I think the trio of Williamson, Brise and Pryce were a big loss to British motorsport in the 70s. All were extremely talented and may have filled the long gap between Hunt and Mansell.

I agree with Leif about Cevert - the 74 Tyrrell was designed around his driving style, and with No. 1 status I think he would have walked the championship. Sadly the record books will record just one (lucky) win by his name...

Ignazio Giunti, while probably not good enough to be a WDC, would have been an F1 race winner too, IMHO.