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Old 26 Apr 2013, 22:21 (Ref:3239797)   #1
Mal
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General Sportscar Chat thread

There have been a few threads recently that whilst having healthy discussion have wandered somewhat off topic and meandered into new directions. Therefore I thought it would be good to have a broad discussion thread in which wider topics could be discussed as long as they have a link to Sportscar racing, remain in good humour and within the forum rules. So here it is - talk away..... The floor is yours.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 19:19 (Ref:3240035)   #2
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I have been having a little banter on the comments section of Joe Sawards blog re F1 & Porsche regarding the relevance of Sportscar racing. It is clear that some F1 fans show no respect for anything outside of F1, despite the fact that their are far more manufacturers involved in Sportscars than F1.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 19:21 (Ref:3240038)   #3
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And more F1 drivers involved than in F1 - Kind of...

But in all seriousness I think this thread is a good idea. The Porsche LMP1 thread should be left exclusively to speculation about Mark Webber.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 20:57 (Ref:3240055)   #4
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Regarding the ammount of manufacturers in sportscars vs F1, yes there are more in sportscars but unfortunately few of the factory teams have the glitz and and glamour that you find in a F1 paddock. The Audi and Toyota set up may well be as impressive as F1 teams in terms of motorhomes and facilites etc, but who else? Corvette and AMR maybe but not many else. Vitaphone when they were in the old FIA GT championship achieved this however. What relevence does this have? Well most F1 fans and the general public are sucked in by the F1 atmosphere, you dont quite get that in a sportscar series paddock unfortunately.

As for the F1 drivers comparison, lots of the drivers in sportscars who come from F1 are great in their own right, but I think many F1 fans see them simply as F1 rejects who werent quite good enough to win in F1 for whatever reason. F1, rightly or wrongly, wrongly IMO is still seen as the pinnacle of motorsport and is untouchable in F1 fans minds, personally I would put the WEC on a par with F1 in terms of the series stature.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 21:21 (Ref:3240060)   #5
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Personally I would put the WEC on a par with F1 in terms of the series stature.
I agree with a lot of your points but I don't know how you'd even begin to argue this one. It just simply isn't true the gulf between the two series is Grand Canyonesque.

That's not F1 fanboy speak that's just realistic.

And yes as for the manufacturers in sportscars you can't really claim it's like this anymore.

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Old 27 Apr 2013, 21:38 (Ref:3240063)   #6
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I have been having a little banter on the comments section of Joe Sawards blog re F1 & Porsche regarding the relevance of Sportscar racing. It is clear that some F1 fans show no respect for anything outside of F1, despite the fact that their are far more manufacturers involved in Sportscars than F1.
Cheers for the heads up on that thread Mal. I enjoy reading Joe Saward, and think he's got a lot of fair points, but equally find he's entertainingly tunnel visioned about how Formula One is the be all and end all, and as for the rest of the commenters, well, at least they're a bit more informed than the ranting folk who commented on a McNish column on BBC.

What most people miss is the core point about brand marketing, where it's not just a case of shoving things in front of loads of eyeballs, it's getting the right relationship with the right viewers, which is what Porsche is all about, and has been for the last 15 years or so, since the nadir of the early 1990s.

Easy to get angry when exposed to nonsense spouted by some F1 acolytes, and then you sit back, think that this time next week we'll be looking back on 6 great hours around Spa, and figure if they don't want to know what they're missing, that's their loss.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 21:50 (Ref:3240070)   #7
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And yes as for the manufacturers in sportscars you can't really claim it's like this anymore.

Except for in GTE!
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 21:55 (Ref:3240071)   #8
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F1 is clearly the pinnacle and the most watched and sportscar racing is nowhere close in popularity, however things aren't exactly rosy for them:

Formula 1 has lost nearly 1/6th of their global viewing audience since 2008 despite being heavily inflated by a joke formula.

Out of Europe Markets that have traditionally been strong for the series such as Canada and Japan are seeing record low viewing figures and attendances.

Television audiences in key markets that have traditionally been weak such as China, Russia, and U.S. starting this year have fallen by large percentiles.

3 Confirmed manufacturers, typical rumours from F1 media and sound bites from manufacturers like Honda but nothing yet even close to being confirmed.

Rising ticket prices

Team financial instability (Marussia looks to be the latest having problems)

Sponsorship for teams at nearly record lows in the past 20 years

Moving to Pay TV across Europe.



Will Sportscar racing be able to take advantage of these issues? Probably not, but in the world of motor racing you never know. Nobody in their right minds in 1980 would say that 15 years later NASCAR would have been the most popular motorsport in North America and the Daytona 500 would have higher viewership than the Indy 500. But things changed. The history of motor racing is relatively short, and nothing guarantees formula 1 will be at the top forever, even if it's for another 50 years.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 22:12 (Ref:3240075)   #9
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I have been having a little banter on the comments section of Joe Sawards blog re F1 & Porsche regarding the relevance of Sportscar racing. It is clear that some F1 fans show no respect for anything outside of F1, despite the fact that their are far more manufacturers involved in Sportscars than F1.
Let me remind, that right now P1 is a two-way competition. Like self-delusion to count GTE etc. since this Porsche decicions was quite clearly between the top class only (P1) and F1. Hundred brands in GTE doesn't make the competition in P1 any better.

Generally the amount of manufacturer seems to be such an absolute value for sportscar fans. F1 all teams are called constructors for a reason. Would you rather take couple of cheap rebadge "manufacturers" than one big non-manufacturer private team like Red Bull?

Last edited by deggis; 27 Apr 2013 at 22:20.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 22:12 (Ref:3240076)   #10
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What is Pat Long doing this year?
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 22:27 (Ref:3240085)   #11
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What is Pat Long doing this year?
ALMS with CORE Autosport's Porsche!!!!
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 22:48 (Ref:3240092)   #12
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Let me remind, that right now P1 is a two-way competition. Like self-delusion to count GTE etc. since this Porsche decicions was quite clearly between the top class only (P1) and F1. Hundred brands in GTE doesn't make the competition in P1 any better.

Generally the amount of manufacturer seems to be such an absolute value for sportscar fans. F1 all teams are called constructors for a reason. Would you rather take couple of cheap rebadge "manufacturers" than one big non-manufacturer private team like Red Bull?
I agree, teams like Red Bull, McLaren and Williams are ''manufacturers'', themselves, and some of their technology has in fact ended up in road cars, with of course McLaren being the greatest example.

In years like 1989, Le Mans had far more quality manufacturers than F1 in C1 Alone. Yet F1 was still by a country mile the most popular sport. If people didn't care back then why would they care now?

P1 is no more quality in terms of manufacturers than F1.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 23:08 (Ref:3240100)   #13
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I agree, teams like Red Bull, McLaren and Williams are ''manufacturers'', themselves, and some of their technology has in fact ended up in road cars, with of course McLaren being the greatest example.

In years like 1989, Le Mans had far more quality manufacturers than F1 in C1 Alone. Yet F1 was still by a country mile the most popular sport. If people didn't care back then why would they care now?

P1 is no more quality in terms of manufacturers than F1.
It's apples and oranges really.

For all of the 30 or so years I've been watching both F1 has always had a fundamentally bigger profile, and I suspect it always will, but there's still a particular niche to be addressed by other forms of motorsport, be it rallying, touring cars, GTs, or prototypes, and there will be brands where there's more of an argument to made in one rather than the other.

As I've said before and elsewhere, the key decision that people funding programmes will make, it what demographic they're talking to, and what's the best route to get there. Sometimes it'll be F1, sometimes it'll be something different.
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Old 27 Apr 2013, 23:21 (Ref:3240104)   #14
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I don't understand why people get so hung up about this stuff. Is it really necessary to justify your choices so much? Or to put down other people's choices?

I like both, although I go to Le Mans every year and not GP. However if I did have an observation it is that the chip on a sportscar fan's shoulder tends to be more obvious than the snobbiness of the F1 fan.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 00:37 (Ref:3240114)   #15
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Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
F1 is F1. And as long as Bernie makes shed loads, it won't change significantly.
Sportscars and GTs are where my heart has been for 25 years now. I find the average F1 fan to have NO knowledge of history, while Sportscar fans know who won in 1986...

Whatever, I leave you to debate the whichness of what.
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