Mercedes F3 engine rumblings!

Jimmy Magnusson · 17 Apr 2008, 15:36 (Ref:2179916)

Mercedes throws a tantrum.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66685

**bella** · 17 Apr 2008, 15:39 (Ref:2179918)

so, they want people to stop doing exactly what they are cause that's not fair...

perfect french logic. except they're german

wannab-aracer · 17 Apr 2008, 16:33 (Ref:2179954)

Mercedes threaten to pull out of F3 - story avaliable at autosport.com

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66685

Gaz · 17 Apr 2008, 16:59 (Ref:2179967)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannab-aracer

Mercedes threaten to pull out of F3 - story avaliable at autosport.com

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66685

Although I agree that F3 shouldn't be turned into an engine development formula I'm not sure Mr Haug is the right man to be spouting off about it. I am right in thinking that what VW are doing now is only what Mercedes did when they joined F3? There actions effectively ended Honda's participation (although there is still the odd driver here and there running the engine) and they did this through investing money on engine development and supplying them to the right teams/drivers.

**FIRE** · 17 Apr 2008, 17:01 (Ref:2179969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Mercedes throws a tantrum.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66685

Didn't costs increase hugely when Mercedes joined F3?

Jimmy Magnusson · 17 Apr 2008, 20:58 (Ref:2180174)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Didn't costs increase hugely when Mercedes joined F3?

Not for Mercedes

Alex K · 17 Apr 2008, 22:26 (Ref:2180242)

I agree with you Gaz 100%, and I am ashamed by Haug's threats. Because of AMG Mercedes entry, because of money they've pumped into F3 (inc. R&D and contracted drivers) he shouldn't be the one addressing the problem. Let's not forget Opel, which had two development teams (in Formel 3) and number of entries. They're engines were brilliant, until Merc turned up... and they've puled out. Rest is history.

Alex K · 17 Apr 2008, 22:30 (Ref:2180245)

Maybe they do not want the costs to soar... more with real competition. WOW, I wonder, what they're gonna do if VW start winning races, bet put more money into R&D.

strider · 17 Apr 2008, 23:56 (Ref:2180277)

Isn't there an expression about the pot calling the kettle black? In this case rather a large pot.

**chunterer** · 18 Apr 2008, 08:04 (Ref:2180439)

I've moved relevant posts from the 2 F3 threads to keep those 2 threads discussing the racing (Euroseries) and testing news (British) respectively.

John Clucas · 18 Apr 2008, 08:44 (Ref:2180462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Didn't costs increase hugely when Mercedes joined F3?

They increase significantly whenever you try to get an odd extra horsepower or foot pound of torque out of already highly developed engines. As I've said before the only real solution is a control engine - you could reduce costs and (if you wanted to) increase power. There is absolutely no real engineering value in trying to extract extra power out of a strangled engine - only a lot of cost.

Lola · 18 Apr 2008, 10:34 (Ref:2180529)

Taking their ball home springs to mind

Jimmy Magnusson · 18 Apr 2008, 10:54 (Ref:2180539)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola

Taking their ball home springs to mind

I hope they do. I've never liked Mercedes.

**bella** · 18 Apr 2008, 16:50 (Ref:2180804)

i hope not. their driver support programme has been helpful for a number of drivers, and although i'm sure some would argue their presence has been unwanted they have supported f3 in europe and the uk.

i do wonder whether a freeze on engine development as i'm sure some cost cutters advocate would render the formula less attractive to manufacturers though.

John Clucas · 18 Apr 2008, 17:26 (Ref:2180825)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

i hope not. their driver support programme has been helpful for a number of drivers, and although i'm sure some would argue their presence has been unwanted they have supported f3 in europe and the uk.

i do wonder whether a freeze on engine development as i'm sure some cost cutters advocate would render the formula less attractive to manufacturers though.

I'm sure that's true - but unfortunately the extra costs that the horsepower race has caused has probably prevented more drivers being prevented from doing F3 competitively than those supported.

Even F1 (where the technology is genuinely interesting) have FINALLY come to the conclusion that costs are unsustainable.

**bella** · 18 Apr 2008, 17:45 (Ref:2180839)

history is history.

given the choice of no manufacturer support in the european series in favour of greater fields due to affordability or manufacturer interest in both drivers and the formula the latter has to be far preferable for the health of f3. every series can't be at the price of formula ford. i think it's commendable that mercedes and volkswagen prefer to put their engines into direct competition with each other rather than renault and bmw who play in their own playpen.

anyway, in the scheme of things engine investment pales into insignificance when you look at what some teams spend on extras like wind tunnel time. that figure for some teams alone could go a long way towards the budget of an extra driver.

ss_collins · 18 Apr 2008, 17:47 (Ref:2180843)

Ok Merc worried its getting too expensive - fine lets have S2000 regs - oh no you won't be competitive...

**bella** · 18 Apr 2008, 17:50 (Ref:2180847)

quite. for once, i agree with you sam...

what is it, any publicity is good publicity? maybe they were getting stroppy with vw hogging the headlines

John Clucas · 18 Apr 2008, 18:04 (Ref:2180867)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

history is history.

given the choice of no manufacturer support in the european series in favour of greater fields due to affordability or manufacturer interest in both drivers and the formula the latter has to be far preferable for the health of f3. every series can't be at the price of formula ford. i think it's commendable that mercedes and volkswagen prefer to put their engines into direct competition with each other rather than renault and bmw who play in their own playpen.

anyway, in the scheme of things engine investment pales into insignificance when you look at what some teams spend on extras like wind tunnel time. that figure for some teams alone could go a long way towards the budget of an extra driver.

But neither cost is justifiable. And both benefit no-one really. I don't believe that more than a tiny percentage (probably not including you, and certainly not me) actually understand the aerodynamic nuances that make a Dallara faster (or slower) than a Lola or a Mercedes engine vs Honda. America and Australia (v8s) seem to have got that message - and the racing is on a more level playing field than ours and MUCH better supported and cheaper. Technology is nothing like as interesting as racing (and I speak as a fully qualified techno-freak).

OJB · 18 Apr 2008, 18:27 (Ref:2180882)

Mercedes claim that they want to use F3 as a springboard for young drivers, but that's what Volkswagen claim to be doing as well, albeit on the way to Audi.

It's a very sad tantrum to throw because motorsport is supposed to be about competition, be it drivers, chassis or engines. They wouldn't be complaining if the VW engine was a complete dog but they were spending more money on it. Its all about trying to get as much success (and probably money) whilst spending as little as possible...

EfiOz · 22 Apr 2008, 12:36 (Ref:2183910)

Cry me a river, Norbert.

Be a man. Reap what you sow.

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