[LM24 Race] Journey to Le Mans

[Muppetdave901]

Anyone else going to see this tomorrow night? I managed to get hold of VIP tickets for the première in London, so shall be rubbing shoulders with Messrs Dolan, Tincknell, Albequerque, McNish etc. at the after party

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Enjoy! I'm hoping we'll get an opportunity to see it here in the states.

[bella]

discussed here (and here in armchair) because i was too lazy to start a new thread.

nice to see there's another tenther dusting off the gladrags for this. do wish it wasn't on a school night though!

[vincegail]

I liked the 'Road to Le Mans' by the Creation team and their endeavours towards and during the 2005 Le Mans very much, so I'm looking forward to this 'Journey to Le Mans'. Should be in the same vein, so very much enjoyable. Blue Ray to be ordered shortly!

[deggis]

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00msOcQZjK0

Might be a familiar narrator (Patrick Stewart).

[bella]

just got back from the leicester square screening (clearly i don't live in london!). don't read this if you don't want to be spoilt

don't expect a cinema masterpiece of bewildering glory. if you watch it expecting a documentary put together essentially by a privateer lmp2 team instead of something like the stuff that audi put together, then you'll love it. it's great to see the story told from their point of view, and there's some nice shots in there. the stars of the show are the chief mechanic (his description of the le mans week is priceless), and simon dolan himself imo. perhaps it's that the other drivers don't really get into the spirit of the thing, i'm not sure, but he really does stand out as being a true human being first, racer second.

however... (and this might not be noticable on a small screen) the cameras they used aren't really up to filming motorsport, lots of the focussing was soft and fluffy around the edges. and i think the actual drama of the story from us, the enthusiasts point of view, got lost a little in their desire to characterise the peaks and the troughs. for example my inner fangirl wanted more to be made of tincknell's first stint at imola because that was one heck of a drive and a battle, and the footage they had did that justice but the lack of words and talking heads didn't. some other bits of footage are shown easily 4 times, and some of the race shots show that the cameramen aren't used to shooting motorsport.

but there's some really nice stuff in there - the soundtrack enhances rather than distracts most of the time, the atmosphere shots of le mans are really really good, especially the driver parade. the images of the senna statue at imola are fantastic and some of the detailed shots of the guys working on the car were great too. i would have loved to see more of that kind of thing, maybe a bit more of a story about the people. but overall i was glad i watched it, and it gave me feels for a team i was otherwise a little indifferent about.

tl;dr: don't expect cinematic masterpiece, don't wear your enthusiasts hat, and you'll be glad you watched it. having said all that, i'll be asking father christmas for the dvd.

[GT6]

Glad you enjoyed it Bella, Helen and i were thinking about going up to Leicester square yesterday but plans changed so did not make it, yes will put it down on my list for Christmas

[rdjones]

I really enjoyed the film and found it very interesting and it kept my attention the whole way through. I have to agree that some of the focusing did seem a bit soft in places it will be interesting to see what it look like on Blue-Ray. Having said that seeing Le Mans on a big screen was fantastic.

I also enjoyed the Q&A afterwards as well. It was just a shame that there where only about 15 people in watching the film, which from some of the comments I have seen is quite a lot of some of other screenings had a lot less than that in !!!

[Mike Bell]

Well, I'm glad I made the effort to see it on a big screen as well. Think there were about 10 people at the Norwich screening!

The film kept my attention, was over too quickly, and luckily for the makers had a happy ending. Hate to think what they would have done if cÃ*r had expired in qualifying or at beginning of 24hrs. In this age of mini HDRs would have been nice to have more in car footage, and that we did get was not good quality for a big screen. Maybe will be better when watching via DVD.

As an endurance fan with several 6hr races under my belt, I was very impressed with the mechanics, engineers and in fact whole team. The build up at Le Mans during the preceding week was an eye opener.....

[bruce]

I enjoyed the film the music and photography were superb I went to the Shepherds Bush showing and was the only one in the screening! There was no Q&A afterwards

[bella]

that's a shame, i thought the q&a gave a lot of good background to the film. worth feeding back the lack of a q&a session to the film's twitter account if not perhaps the attendance

[Muppetdave901]

I enjoyed it, but as has been said I don't know as it will have much in the way of wider appeal past LM visitors - be interesting to see how it fairs when it's shown on ITV4.

There were a few niggles; same clip used twice within minutes of each other (passing an AM car), mixture of Patrick Stewart and Tiff Niddell as Voiceover (apparently a deal was done with both prior to knowing exactly what the plan was and they carried through with using both) and also the spurious use of Webber's (and to a lesser extent McNish's) name as 'also starring' when the involvement seemed to amount to a shot of him getting out of Dolan's jet and at the parade!

I'd honestly forgotten about the Duval aspect of the story!!!

I enjoyed the Q&A - managed to get the last question in! (and funnily enough, my friend who was at the Norwich screening got the first one in there).

I didn't check back in on this thread, otherwise it would have been nice to say hello Bella; apologies!

[Gingers4Justice]

Watched it yesterday. I hate slating things, but that was terrible.

One of the most annoying aspects was that they seemed to hire hyper-motion cameras and thought they had to get full value for money out of them by filming the team and mechanics with them for seemingly endless hours.

The soundtrack was really corny as well. Not only was there too much music, but it contained really cheesy lyrics which took away from the drama rather than adding to it. The Stewart/Needell narration was also extremely clumsy.

Those things are forgivable though, because that's just personal preference - although my mate who I watched it with agreed. My real gripe with this film was much more fundamental than that.

This film managed the enviable task of failing to satisfy the needs of both the casual fan or interested party and the anorak. Apart from during race at Le Mans - about three quarters into the film - when Palmer on Radio Le Mans referred to "Jota in the P2 class", the film never explained the multi-class structure of the racing or the class Jota were racing in. They didn't talk about the tough competition they faced. The film failed to mention the circuit's unique characteristics, and only briefly mentioned the race's rich history at the start (mainly featuring footage of the Grand Prix, rather than the 24 hours itself). It barely even touched on the tactical aspect of the racing, other than the amount of time Dolan had to spend in the car.

Then there were some really basic things. I realised pretty quickly that the film never actually properly explained why Gene had to be called up to Audi, or certainly did not make it clear that it was due to Loic Duval's injuries sustained in the crash (he's recovered well by the way, if you watched the film and hadn't heard about it before). This and Turvey's late call up were some of the most incredible aspects of the story and they did it a stunning amount of disservice.

You might argue from there that it's clear this film assumed a lot of knowledge and wasn't for the casual fan. But there was an incredible amount of continuity errors in the footage, the most annoying of which was the Test Day coverage - most of which was taken from the start of the actual race! I've seen motor racing films use pieces of footage more than once before, but this took that to new levels. They seemed to have taken a bit of footage from the opening lap, a bit during dusk, and then a bit during Sunday afternoon - and that's all they used for all of race week.

Then, to top it all off, that incredible finish in P2 was given about 5 minutes. The two Ligiers - which the film hadn't mentioned up to this point - were clearly struggling at the end of the race and that's what made it so exciting. The film, however, just portrayed it as if it was the Zytek and Turvey's pace which contributed to that. Anyone who was there would know it wasn't like that, and that doesn't take anything away from Jota's superb win.

I wouldn't recommend this film to anyone, as I'm not sure what audience it's meant to be for. Maybe I was too wound up by some of these issues to enjoy the film for what it was, but that's hard when you're not sure what "it" is supposed to be. This had all the ingredients for a film which straddled the tricky line between the demands of the casual audience and a knowledgeable one, and it's a pretty wide miss on both fronts for me.

[Gingers4Justice]

Crikey, I didn't notice how much I'd typed until I'd hit "post".

Before anybody says I need to get out more, I'm ill and bed ridden.

[GT6]

For those who have not purchased this yet i believe that a shortened version will be shown on ITV4 on thursday evening at 8.00

[bella]

i agree with all that, g4j, but on a slightly less fist-shaking basis. i think they could have binned tiff off, and used the drivers for a bit more narration to tie it together with sir patrick stewart for drama. narrators are meant to tell a story and we didn't really get much of that.

i didn't mind the soundtrack too much - it was weird and a bit intrusive in places but better than the usual doofdoof crap. thought they covered turveys call-up well, bearing in mind it would have perhaps taken up too much time to explain where gene went. given it was a film about jota, not the race, it seemed ok to skip over that a bit. but then so much of the good race story was missed...

i think it could have been a great story about the *team*, or a great story about the *race*. maybe it was trying to do too much.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by bella

i agree with all that, g4j, but on a slightly less fist-shaking basis. i think they could have binned tiff off, and used the drivers for a bit more narration to tie it together with sir patrick stewart for drama. narrators are meant to tell a story and we didn't really get much of that.

Well I'm a little in and grumpy so I'd take the first-shaking with a pinch of salt

I was a little harsh but I'm always frustrated when coverage of Le Mans gets over-complicated and misses the opportunity to show what it's all about. Just tell it how it is, and 9 times out of 10, your story's already there. I think that's what I liked about the Deltawing documentary.

As for the drama, perhaps Hindy could have done the narration as well as the commentary, unknown as he is to a mainstream audience.

[Simmi]

Agree with G4J on this one - didn't rate it at all.

The brilliance of something like Truth in 24 makes life difficult for any Le Mans doc to live up to but yeah, it felt off on a number of levels. The music grated badly for me. I thought the use of Patrick Stewart just seemed like a vanity thing and when Tiff came in his sound levels weren't the same.

It just felt very disjointed.

[Muppetdave901]

Originally Posted by Simmi

The brilliance of something like Truth in 24 makes life difficult for any Le Mans doc to live up to

Was interesting when I met Hindy at the JTLM do; he was telling me about how Truth in 24 came about in the format we know and love. Funnily enough he questioned H about it in the interview they did at the weekend, but didn't quite say as much as he had to me. Seems that the success of Truth in 24 came about very last minute in their production!

[bella]

it's important to realise the difference in production teams, kit, money and so on between truth in 24 and journey to le mans too. subtle things like the cameras that were available to each crew member, the trackside experience of each of those cameramen, the familiarity of the director with the sport and the way a race evolves, etc etc.

granted that doesn't make any difference to what you see on screen and what your impression of that production is, but i think it helps appreciate the film as a piece of le mans, you know? /tree hugging hippy moment

[Muppetdave901]

Bloody yoghurt lickers

[isynge]

Originally Posted by bella

granted that doesn't make any difference to what you see on screen and what your impression of that production is, but i think it helps appreciate the film as a piece of le mans, you know? /tree hugging hippy moment

I can certainly see what Bella's driving at here. Not all footage is created equal, some is magnificent (e.g. Truth in 24, Speed Merchants), some is forgettable but of some documentary worth (e.g. the official videos of 1979 and 1980), some execrable but still worth having around (the 2009 official review springs to mind), some a bit niche (e.g. the pair of Rollcentre videos) and some a little odd (the Michel Vaillant film anyone?).

What links all of it is that it is a representation of a subject we all feel passionate about, and in that light every piece of footage, flawed or otherwise, helps us understand Le Mans more.

I'll 'fess up, I've yet to see the Jota film, but I'll be tracking it down and watching it between now and the end of the year, and I suspect I'll learn something from it. Will it have massive rewatch potential? I suspect not, but undoubtedly it'll be preserved and appreciated for what it is.

Does this earn me sufficient opprobrium as a tree hugger candidate?

[bella]

Originally Posted by isynge

I can certainly see what Bella's driving at here. Not all footage is created equal, some is magnificent (e.g. Truth in 24, Speed Merchants), some is forgettable but of some documentary worth (e.g. the official videos of 1979 and 1980), some execrable but still worth having around (the 2009 official review springs to mind), some a bit niche (e.g. the pair of Rollcentre videos) and some a little odd (the Michel Vaillant film anyone?).

What links all of it is that it is a representation of a subject we all feel passionate about, and in that light every piece of footage, flawed or otherwise, helps us understand Le Mans more.

I'll 'fess up, I've yet to see the Jota film, but I'll be tracking it down and watching it between now and the end of the year, and I suspect I'll learn something from it. Will it have massive rewatch potential? I suspect not, but undoubtedly it'll be preserved and appreciated for what it is.

Does this earn me sufficient opprobrium as a tree hugger candidate?

far better said than i managed, sir

i'll be rewatching it on itv (if i remember), but that's partly to see if the things that jarred on a big screen are less obvious on a smaller one. and to see if cutting out some faff makes the skipping over of some of what we'd consider important parts of the story more appropriate.

another problem the film has is that the senna movie was just mindblowingly good and very clever. the more time that passes the more that's obvious. that's why narrators were a bit weird for me - the senna film made such a great job of tacking the footage together without a narrator to tell the story. so now a narrator seems a bit intrusive almost, and unnecessary, and it's kind of why i suggested using the drivers to hold it together aside from sir patrick stewarts parts. which were pretty cool.

i feel like the story in this was the story of the team, and thats what needed to be told more than the story of the race. i wanted to see a little more of the cool fiddly car work filming stuff and some more of the effort that goes into preparing and running the car. given that the tools available to the film crew were a slight compramise it would have perhaps been better to stay away from trying to make an epic, and just try telling the personal story of jota. i mean, even in the film as it was on the big screen some of the events in the race they made a big deal of weren't referred to in the pictures *at all*, which would lead me to believe there was a couple of guys and one camera filming the big showpiece event in the doc. surely that's not going to work in a 24 hour race with things happening all the time...

[Mal]

Its on tonight at 8pm on ITV 4 in the UK

[GT6]

So do not forget to watch this tonight at 8.00 on ITV4 or at 9.00 on ITV4 plus 1