Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by deggis

Privateer-P1 looks bleak right now but with P2 becoming what it is becoming they're forcing the few bigger team-constructors to consider P1.

The problem is that the ACO/WEC don’t have a good business model right now for something between gentlemen-driver funded, cost-capped LMP2 and factory mega-expensive LMP-1H. One issue is exactly what you’re hinting at, the model in practice seems to want to turn P2 teams into constructors, or at least for each team to partner with a constructor to develop a LMP-1L car. That’s a huge cost jump from LMP2, and it also usually is going to take away the main existing gentlemen-driver funding source (yes, Strakka is a possible exception). So who’s suppose to pay for all this?

To make matters worse, the return on the LMP-1L investment to date has been rather poor. The cars just haven’t been good enough — only a couple of seconds a lap ahead of LMP2s but with much lower reliability. Fuji was the first time all year that a LMP-1L car has finished ahead of the entire LMP-2 field. And even at best, privateer LMP1s are racing for (this year) 7th overall — and 9th at Le Mans — unless Audi/Porsche/Toyota start breaking, which rarely happens. That’s just a hard sell.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

I think the ACO is slowly trying to get the audience used to GT3 AM's. I think they want to ditch GTE AM and replace it with a much cheaper GT3 AM in both LM24 and WEC.

Maybe, it certainly would add variety to the grid, which currently is a bit lacking.

There’s a big constraint though: The limited number of garages (entries) at Le Mans and by the WEC’s apparent self-imposed cap on season-long entries. As of right now, the ACO and the WEC aren’t exactly hurting for entries, so I’m not sure what lowering the (cost) bar for participation would achieve.

[rich07]

My guess is that the ACO are still trying to steal the GT3 pie from Ratel, but by bit.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by rich07

My guess is that the ACO are still trying to steal the GT3 pie from Ratel, but by bit.

Yep, it's utterly deplorable. There are enough GT cars in the world for several great series, but not the number of series currently being offered for the. TUSC, PWC and PWC 'Sprint' in North America, Blancpain, ELMS, GT Open and now this new ACO horror story.

Hope it dies after the first year, but no doubt it will succeed in removing a few entries from Blancpain in the short-term.

[Miguel]

If it'll be as much of a staggering success as the ELMS, Blancpain GT will have nothing to worry about.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

If they kill the Legends race just for some GT3s, there's going to be a riot.

Not a chance.

There will be a lot of grumbling and doubtless some people will stay away for a couple of years, but there won't be any significant damage to the ACO's coffers and that's ultimately what matters to them. A quarter of a million people don't come to La Sarthe for the 45 Minutes du Mans Légendes, do they?

Originally Posted by rich07

My guess is that the ACO are still trying to steal the GT3 pie from Ratel, but by bit.

I don't think there's much bit-by-bit about it. The ACO want to capitalize on Blancpain becoming a victim of its own success and what better way to do that then to offer GT3 the one race Stephane couldn't even provide in his wet dreams?

[Speed-King]

While there's a pretty clear dig on the SRO in the interview on DSC, I think this is very much also about ELMS being something of a victim of its own success with P3... With the amount of cars being sold right now, there really won't be much room for GT3 in ELMS.

And then, I think the sad remnants of GT-Open might also be up for grabs.

Ratel should be alright, I think.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by deggis

ACO plans new GT3 series for 2016 with Le Mans 24 Hours support race

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121362

Folks, read the fine print:

Originally Posted by Autosport

The new series would likely take the format of a pair of two-driver, one-hour races without refueling

It would be reserved for silver and bronze-rated drivers

The ACO is trying to attract more amateurs into their championship. SRO has plenty, they won't feel any loss.

[Speed-King]

The Autosport report came out before the official announcement - the plan now seems clearly to have one 120 minute race per weekend.

[Rodger Davies]

Email from the TVR mailing list:

Dear TVR Fan,

By way of a brief update, I thought you would like to hear about some exciting news that is*breaking*in Autocar and Motorsport magazine.
*
Steve Cropley met us at Cosworth a little while ago to witness the firing up of the pre-production version of our new engine on the dyno. It was a pretty seminal moment – all of those months of hard work culminating in a single button push! Needless to say it was very exciting, particularly as the dyno cell in question is capable of simulating various circuits around the world as part of its automated routine…needless to say, we chose Le Mans!
*
Without wishing to steal any of Steve’s thunder, we were all very impressed with the performance, particularly the torque characteristics and peak power of the test engine. Even without the correct exhaust system fitted, it sounded awesome – fire & brimstone! The lap time was pretty impressive too!
*
Having achieved most of what we need for the road car, we continue to build on the strengths of the base engine, heading towards our various milestones of track, one make series and Le Mans cars, refining the road car version alongside developing the race versions. Currently, the Le Mans regulations for 2017 and beyond are still in the melting pot but we hope to have clarity on these in the coming months. This will assist not only the race car effort, but also could determine some of the work we do on the LE car - it’s better to allow for as much as possible (without compromising the road car) than to change it just for the race effort.
*
There will be a number of aspects of our current progress revealed and discussed in the article, not least of which will be the source of the base engine…and more! We could, of course, have sent out an official update but we feel that one from an independent source would be better – warts and all, as with all that we do.

Very best wishes,

Les Edgar
Chairman
TVR*

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Email from the TVR mailing list:

Sounds like they are moving forward, great to hear.

[Speed-King]

Hmm, that's a surprise: International GT Open is apparently set to continue despite dismal grids for most of 2015. Or at least they've confirmed their intention to race at Spa at the end of May.

http://speedactiontv.be/Le_GT_Open_v..._-16201-1.aspx

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Folks, read the fine print:



The ACO is trying to attract more amateurs into their championship. SRO has plenty, they won't feel any loss.

No decision has yet been made on the second driver ranking - One must be a Bronze. Consultation with teams is underway

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

No decision has yet been made on the second driver ranking - One must be a Bronze. Consultation with teams is underway

The second ranking doesn't matter. If they require 1 bronze, that means if you want to win 1 person will be footing the bill. They'll either hire a Silver or a Gold/Platinum.

And yes, I've already spoken with people who want to run that series next year and the driver rankings don't mean jack.

-mike

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The second ranking doesn't matter. If they require 1 bronze, that means if you want to win 1 person will be footing the bill. They'll either hire a Silver or a Gold/Platinum.

And yes, I've already spoken with people who want to run that series next year and the driver rankings don't mean jack.

-mike

Any interest in running in the series yourself Mike?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by rich07

Any interest in running in the series yourself Mike?

Ya, it sounds fun and good tracks. But I think the budget will be too high for me personally.

I'm not sure of the last time anyone ran a GT3 car on customer Michelins but I'd be curious to see how they compare to the Pirelli DH compound (hardest, what they use in BES/BSS and PWC).

-mike

[TF110]

Question, why do they run the hardest tire? Degradation worries?

[Coach Ep]

To make 'm last longer and limit costs for teams maybe?

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Hmm, that's a surprise: International GT Open is apparently set to continue despite dismal grids for most of 2015. Or at least they've confirmed their intention to race at Spa at the end of May.

http://speedactiontv.be/Le_GT_Open_v..._-16201-1.aspx

Here's a couple more GT Open provisional dates:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/world-ser...5-v8-calendar/

Despite those I'm not convinced the series will continue next year - RPM might have bet on the wrong horse (should have gone with ELMS instead)....

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

To make 'm last longer and limit costs for teams maybe?

The only thing that saves tire budget is ABS and a series limiting the number of new sets of tires you can use in a weekend by the regulations. All the proper GT race tires get slower after you heat cycle them. Nobody uses tires longer than they have to in order to save money. A set of tires is a (relatively) small part of a race weekend budget and has a huge impact on performance.

I'm not sure why Pirelli and/or the various series chose the hardest compound. Maybe it was "safer" in that it'll work ok with all the different chassis/car combinations at all the tracks (high load, low load, etc) and if everyones on the same tire, then it really doesn't matter.

The DH compound is actually pretty good. I'd like to try the softer ones just for fun, but if it's above say 45 degrees F it's really not hard to get them hot enough to work. They're pretty consistent as well. Very good tire overall.

As cool as it would be to have tire compound options, it'd increase the costs drastically as you'd have to do testing and development on each tire option instead of just one.

-mike

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The only thing that saves tire budget is ABS and a series limiting the number of new sets of tires you can use in a weekend by the regulations. All the proper GT race tires get slower after you heat cycle them. Nobody uses tires longer than they have to in order to save money. A set of tires is a (relatively) small part of a race weekend budget and has a huge impact on performance.

I'm not sure why Pirelli and/or the various series chose the hardest compound. Maybe it was "safer" in that it'll work ok with all the different chassis/car combinations at all the tracks (high load, low load, etc) and if everyones on the same tire, then it really doesn't matter.

The DH compound is actually pretty good. I'd like to try the softer ones just for fun, but if it's above say 45 degrees F it's really not hard to get them hot enough to work. They're pretty consistent as well. Very good tire overall.

As cool as it would be to have tire compound options, it'd increase the costs drastically as you'd have to do testing and development on each tire option instead of just one.

-mike

Can you feel if a tire is good versus a tire that is great? I wonder if you liked the Pirelli or Continental race tire better in 2015?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Can you feel if a tire is good versus a tire that is great? I wonder if you liked the Pirelli or Continental race tire better in 2015?

Maybe, but I've never driven on the "confidential" Michelins. The Pirellis are probably the best tire I've driven on.

The Continental tires are not good. Every time I get a tire bill from them it makes me angry. I'm sure they could build a decent tire if IMSA let them, so I hate to beat them up over it. The GT sprint tire they had a couple years ago was ok. I thought the "speedway" tire was garbage (which is what GT uses now).

We tested the Pirelli's and Continentals side-by-side on my 458 GT3 car at Road Atlanta a few months ago. The results were.... interesting.

-mike

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

I'm not sure of the last time anyone ran a GT3 car on customer Michelins but I'd be curious to see how they compare to the Pirelli DH compound (hardest, what they use in BES/BSS and PWC).

-mike

GT Open raced on Dunlops last year and now on Michelins for this year.

I don't have a clue of what type of tires Michelin supplies there, but if there was a tire competition, Michelin would only face a matched rival on Bridgestone, like it is on SuperGT's GT500.

Pirellli tires were always much slower when they faced competition in F1. This year, it was possible to compare the Michelin and Pirelli GT tires during the Nurburgring 24h. The Michelin Bentley was 6 seconds faster than the Pirelli Bentley on qualifying, and the fastest race lap of the Michelin car was 4s faster than that of the Pirelli.

I watched the DTM and Blancpain races on Zandvoort this year. It's absolutely ridiculous how much more grip the DTM car have even on the slower corners(on the faster ones it's obvious given the lower weight and much more downforce of the DTM cars). On the slow hairpins, the tire's grip is what most matters and the Blancpain GTs, on Pirellis, were no match for the DTM's Hankooks.

And have in mind that the Hankook DTM tires are said to be much slower than the SuperGT tires.

[rich07]

Well there is a tire war in Super GT unlike DTM which has a single supplier so that would be half the reason why SGT tires are better.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Artur

Pirellli tires were always much slower when they faced competition in F1.

Are you seriously comparing GT tires to F1 tires? I'm sure it'd be easier to compare snow tires to summer tires on tirerack.com.

-mike

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Are you seriously comparing GT tires to F1 tires? I'm sure it'd be easier to compare snow tires to summer tires on tirerack.com.

-mike

I think he meant Pirelli's tire in general vs its competition. Thats why he said in F1 when there were choices, the Pirelli was slower.